Gaddzy

I have a Siamese fighter fish tank which has three seperate compartments. I have a siamese on the left, and in the middle i have the heater, and on the right i have another siamese. The one on the right's water has been getting VERY dirty every 2 days and the water gets really low. I have checked for a leak and i clean it every time it gets too dirty. Does anyone know what's wrong with my fish?

ShaynaB

It's possible that he just poos more. Do you feed him more?

How big are the compartments? Is there flow of water in between the compartments?

Is there a filter in the tank? That'd probably help a lot if you don't already have one.

Allie

betta fish need at least 3gs each. How big is your tank? Is there a low flow filter on it? What are you feeding your fish? Betta like pellets better than flakes and it's better for them.

Lonely Angel

If the water is getting low only on one side, it sounds like there isn't water flow between the compartments. That means that the heater and filter (if you have one) aren't able to do their job.

Bettas should be fed small amounts of betta pellets or bloodworms and kept in a filtered tank, or the water will get dirty. As Allie said, they also need a lot more swimming room than the pet stores claim. 5 or 10 gallon tanks are best, but need at least a 2.5 gallon tank.

COBettaCouple

Welcome to Fishlore.

What you need is a tank with the dividers that have holes in them, at least 2.5 gallons of water per Betta and filtration that can move the water through the dividers. Ideally, you'd want them each in their own tank.

Gaddzy

Thanks for all your suggestions. I did have a filter but everyone said that siamese fighters don't need a filter. My last two siamese fighter i put a filter in and they both died the next day so i didn't think that it was suitable for them. Thank you!!

pamd

Adding a filter would definitely not have killed your Bettas, if you installed the filter correctly and you were careful to not contaminate it, such as with soap. On the contrary, the fish would have appreciated it.

There's something really wrong with your divided tank. How could the water be at different levels and get dirtier on one side? No filtration. See?

If the filter was properly installed and there was no contamination on the parts or your hands, then the Bettas probably had a disease that was shared between them and caused their unfortunate deaths. Please don't be scared of filters and please don't listen to most people in the aquarium departments of chain stores.

There are a few knowledgeable people, but I just heard it again yesterday: "Bettas come from muddy ponds in Thailand, so they don't need filters and heaters." That was at PetCo, notorious for spreading this myth about our highly interbred domesticated bettas, so far removed from the wild. On top of that, the wild ones don't generally live in mud puddles, unless they're desperately trying to escape to a fresher pond. It's a myth that keeps going and going ... especially at PetCo. There seems to be a corporate culture of spreading this myth. It's so weird.

Trying to educate the PetCo guy, who is responsible for lots of advice to lots of potential Betta owners, didn't seem to help. His eyes glazed over. He said he'd check out FishLore, but I'll bet he won't. Sad.

Please read up here on Betta care. FishLore is a *much* more reliable source of information than 90 percent of so-called aquarium experts in a chain store.

beyzagorkemli

I don't understand your system, completely. If you can, you should divide your tank considering the water flow.

ShaynaB

I agree with Pam. Adding a filter would not have killed your bettas unless there was something seriously wrong with the filter.

Both my bettas have filters and heaters and they are thriving.

How big is your tank?

Devon

Welcome to FishLore.

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that the most likely reason your bettas died with the filter, was because they were living in an uncycled tank! Bettas need at LEAST 2.5 gallons of water each (5 or more is better), a heater, a water filter, and ideally, an air stone or some other form of aeration, since their ideal temperature is 78-80F, and water does not hold as much oxygen at warmer temps. But the heater and filter are not negotiable if you want happy, healthy bettas. As you will read in many other sections of the betta forum, there is a big difference between surviving fish and thriving fish... bettas can survive without a filter, but it really isn't a happy life for them.
Depending on the size of your tank, you may need two filters. If there is enough room in there for 3 compartments as you described, I would filter at each end. I just recently set up a divided 10 gallon tank and have found that the substrate on the side of the divider without the filter is usually much, much dirtier than the filtered side. It's bad enough, actually, that I am considering re-arranging so that I don't have to have any divided tanks. Just be sure that the filters you are using are either very low power, or have some kind of intake adjuster to keep the current weak -- those long-finned betta boys can get thrown around by the current, especially in the beginning when their swimming muscles are weakest.

Hope we don't all sound too "preach-ey" here on this subject, but you'd be amazed at what pet store employees are saying about all fish (bettas in particular) that is flat-out untrue! Pet store chains are concerned with how much you buy... not how happy / healthy your fish are.
Good luck!!

Gaddzy

It's just three compartments completely seperate. No holes for the water to fow through, so that means i'd have to get 2 filers anyway.

And i actally work at a pet shop and we sell a lot, A LOT, of siamese fighters all the time and most people don't even buy heaters. Like 7 people have come in and said that their siamese have lived for 2-3 years with no heater or filter. They're not just trying to get money out of me ecause it's free anyway so they don't have too.

And why is it, if i did need a filter, that only one compartment of the tank is REALLY dirty? If it was the filter wouldn't all 3 be dirty part from the one with no fish?

Each comparment is 4.5x4.5x8 inches which is around about 3 L in each which is like 0.7 gallons. In every pet shop in Australia, we have ones that are like 2x2x2 so i thought i was giving them plenty of room.

Everytime we put them in a larger tank at work, a way larger tank, they all seem to be very unhappy and they don't like it. It there small tanks they are all next to each other and active all the time. We found in a larger tank they lay down the bottom, even with a heater.

ShaynaB

I've seen tanks like that...

There was a new guy at my LFS that tried to sell me one before the owner told him to be quiet because I knew what I was doing. LOL

If there is no flow between the compartments you could have a couple of things going on. You could be feeding the boy on that side more causing him to poo more or it could be a bacteria bloom. Is the water cloudy milky white? If so, that's a bacterial bloom.

In every pet shop in America, we too have very small tanks and people buy fish to put into the tanks. I had a discussion with my favorite fish store owner about this recently. If they don't sell the small containers someone else will which is sad but it brings people into the store. It may not be the best thing in the world but it's kind of their Catch 22.

It's possible that with the smaller tanks they're always active because they're always flaring at each other. While this is ok for a little bit, it will make them stressed and sick over time.

I have both my boys in 5 gallon tanks and they're just fine. They do have hiding caves in each of them so that they can go sleep or hide if they want. I think that makes a big difference, really. Also, it takes fish a day or two (or more) to get comfortable with their homes. I just got my friend a betta for her birthday and he was hiding for the first 2 days but then he came out and was zooming around his tank.

Bottom line, yes bettas CAN live in tiny spaces for 2 to 3 years but will they like it? It's the equivalent of us humans living in a tiny closet. Surviving is very different from thriving.

It's also a lot harder (as you can see) to keep very small tanks clean. When you have a bigger tank, you can cycle it so that it doesn't get all mucky and dirty so much if you just do your regular cleanings.

Alessa

You can always get a 15 gallon long and divide it by 3, with dividers that have holes for the water flow.

Really, any fish, no matter which needs a filter and space to swim freely. a .7 gallon container with no filter is not nearly enough for a betta (siamese fightera) to be happy and healthy or to keep it clean.

Like allie said, they might just be flaring at each other all the time... wich doesnt mean they are happy... at all.

also bettas arent like guppies. they will not be swimming around a tank like crazy, it is just not their nature.

Do you know about the nitrogen cycle? it is something vital to a healthy fish tank where fish can live for more than a couple months. Here it is: http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

Devon

Sorry, but there is no fish in the world that is happy living for 3 years in a .7 gallon container. That's like chaining your dog on a 3' chain for its entire life. There's another word for that: animal cruelty.

Gaddzy

Heyy,
I took everyone's advise and moved the remaining siamese fighter to a bigger tank(12.6L) with a filter, and also the heater. He doesn't look happy, but maybe he's just getting used to it. Should i gte him a little house to in in so he isn't like hit by the filter water? Or just leave him be. He has a little plant in there so yeh.

I was also wondering, he desn't come up for food like he usd to, do u just out it in and leave him to ge it or do something else?

Please give me any other advise!!!!
Thanks!

Lucy

Sometimes it takes time for them to get used to a new tank.

Definitely add a little house or cave and more plants for him to hide and play around. It'll also give him a place to get away from the water flow until he's strong enough.

I don't know the type of filter you have, but what I did was shove a peice of filter media into the out take so it hangs down into the tank, now the water trickles down it rather than create a current.

ShaynaB

Some fish take a while to get used to their new space.

They don't like a ton of current. Some filters come with flow controls or Lucy's suggestion works too, with putting a baffle in front of the flow.

Both my boys have a cave to hide in, just remember to check to see if it's smooth so that your boy doesn't snag his fins!

Devon

Congrats on moving him. I'm sure if he could speak, he would be saying, "THANK YOU!!" They can sometimes be shy about a new house, give him some time and I have no doubt he will soon be zipping around like a wild thing.

An alternative to a cave, if you can't find one with smooth edges, is a smooth glass cup or small vase turned on its side. Just be sure it isn't painted or have any metal on it, and be really sure that it is glass (most other things will leech nasty, hazardous substances into your tank. Glass is pretty much the only 100% safe bet.) Solid or very dark-coloured glass is best, clear glass kind of defeats the purpose of a cave to begin with.

Gaddzy

Well you know...thanks guys!!!! now to you my fish died!! He was happy in his small tank and u told me to move him and said he'd be happier and he died!!! Great work!! And no i didn't contaminate the water. i did everything i was supose too, and now he's dead!!

Devon

Sorry your fish died. Was the tank cycled? What are/were the water parameters?

Sorry, but bettas never die because you put them in an adequately-sized, heated & filtered tank. They die from diseases and poor water quality... not from comfortable living quarters. There are other factors going into the fish's death, it's in your best interest to determine the real reason, so that it doesn't happen again!

Alessa

I am really sorry your fish died, but like Devon said, no fish has ever died from placing him in a decent swimming space. I am sure that he died from ammonia poisoning from being placed in the UNCYCLED tank. Did you read the nitrogen cycle article where the cycle was explained? we were just trying to help and told you what was the most adequate thing to do for the fish but it is not our fault that you did not read the nitrogen cycle article where it explains what you should do so that your fish dont die in a new aquarium.

sirdarksol

I'm sorry your fish died, Gaddzy, but I don't think it's fair to blame anyone here.
Your other fish died recently, if I'm reading this rest of this thread right. It is possible that, by the time you made the change, your second betta already had an infection that was going to kill it no matter what you did. Stressed fish are more susceptible to all sorts of infection, and being in a compressed, dirty area will stress any living thing.

Another possibility is that the betta already had gill damage from ammonia poisoning from the first tank.

A third possibility is that the water chemistry in the original tank was so different (from increased waste products in the water) than the water in the new tank that the poor guy went into shock. It has happened that fish have suffered and died when a neglected tank is suddenly given a huge water change. This happens because the fish's cells become somewhat accustomed to having a certain solution of water and other stuff. The switch causes a rapid rush of water into the cells, causing some of them to burst. Red blood cells are usually the first this happens to, and if it happens enough, not enough oxygen reaches the muscles and brain, and the body simply shuts down.

Again, I'm sorry that you lost your fish. It is a terrible thing to happen. But the majority (if not all) of the people who responded to you, suggesting you upgrade your tank, are keeping bettas in larger tanks and their fish are doing very well, interacting with their human caretakers and sometimes with the other pets in the house.

Sorry about the temporarily missing thread. It is back. Please continue (but keep it polite).