Isabella

I have 12 neons and 2 angelfish (plus an algae eater approximately 4" long). My tank is 30 gallons in volume. I saw a really beautiful black angelfish in my pet store yesterday. And I am in love with it! Now I want to get it! I never had a black angel before. Will my tank be overstocked with 3 adult angels and 12 neons (plus the algae eater)? Will my 2 angels like the black one? Or does one have to have the same type of angels? What's more, that angelfish is a young adult (and it most likely wasn't raised with smaller fish
therefore it is not used to them). How likely is it that it will eat my neons?

Butterfly

I'm afraid that would put you over the edge as far as tank size goes Also when you get more than 2 angels together you usually wind up with a pair and the odd man or woman out will be harrassed unmercifully. sometimes they are even killed.
Carol

Isabella

Indeed, it makes sense what you're saying. It won't really sadden me that I won't get one more angel. I was just wondering if it would be possible to do so without harm to any fish. But it's OK. Maybe I will get a larger tank one day (probably in a very distant future!), and then get more angels Because now I certainly wouldn't want any of my fish to be harassed, much less killed! Thanks Carol

Butterfly

No problem! I have to really watch mine. there are 3 in the 75g and they get rough with each other once in a while, and just having room and plants to get away in is all that saves the odd man out. the others are pairs in seperate tanks. just gives you something to aim for
Carol

Isabella

Carol, would gouramis be compatible with angels? Would 2 angels, 2 gouramis, and 12 neons be too much for a 30 gallon tank?

Butterfly

Have never tried it. But again the size of the tank makes alot of difference. Dwarf Gouramis might work. My Dwarf's used to nip at the danios once in awhile but they(the danios) were too fast to be damaged. Larger Gouramis can be a little nippy and aggressive in close quarters also. sorry I can't be more help.
what kind of Gouramis were you looking at?
Carol

Isabella

Hi Carol You are always a lot of help! I think the gouramis that I like are dwarf type. But I will not buy any more fish, if what I currently have is enough. I would rather not buy anything than risk overstocking. As for the gouramis, I am purely enchanted by their look, I love these fishies I also love rams and discus (but never saw either of them in any pet store). I'd buy them all if I had a 100 gallon tank! (I will one day!) In the [distant] future I am definitely getting a tank with a pair of each: discus, rams, gouramis, and angels. For now, I am only wondering if 2 more gouramis (combined with my 2 angels and 12 neons) would be too much in a 30 gallon tank. I am posting the pictures of the gouramis I like (from the internet, of course). So you can see if they're the right type for my tank community and for my tank size. Also posting some pictures of discus and rams that I love! If any more fishies than I currently have are allowable in my tank, which do you think would be best with my angels? Rams or gouramis? (Because discus are probably too large for a 30 gallon tank.) Thanks up front Carol

Attached Images

	Rainbow Dwarf Gourami.jpg (31.4 KB, 36 views)
	Blood Red Gourami.jpg (14.1 KB, 37 views)
	Ram1.jpg (22.8 KB, 36 views)
	Ram2.gif (104.5 KB, 37 views)
	Discus1.jpg (11.1 KB, 37 views)
	Discus2.jpg (9.2 KB, 47 views)
	Discus3.jpg (10.4 KB, 46 views)
	Discus4.jpg (9.9 KB, 46 views)

Isabella

One more thing - I don't know if the blue and red colored gouramis are dwarfs. I often see in my pet store nice blue and red colored gouramis whose appearance is a bit "metallic" if you know what I mean. I love this metallic texture and deep reds and blues on these fishies. If I were to get gouramis, I think these are the ones I'd like.

Isabella

Haha ... it's me again ... sorry! They CURRENTLY have the most beautiul Changa Rangas in my pet store! These are literally transparent fishies Carol! I read they're compatibale with most community fish too! I've never seen anything like this before. Isn't it cool? Transparent fish, lol! So include them with gouramis, rams, and discus for my choice

Attached Images

ChandaRanga1.jpg (11.9 KB, 39 views)

Butterfly

Isabella the best habit you can ever pick up is looking at and remembering or copying the scientific name from the tag at the lfs. This is why: The first Gourami is a dwarf its scientific name is Colisa lalia. Here they are called neon gouramis, there they are called rainbow dwarf gourami, some place else they will be called something else. If you know their scientific name also then when you look them up you will get the fish you are looking for. usually Todays fish lesson is now over :P The second Gourami is a dwarf also, it is Colisa chuna commonly called honey gourami, fire gourami etc , and it gets the most magnificent color when in breeding colors. Would make an excellent choice. I think mine was less aggressive than the other dwarfs.
The Changa Ranga is Chanda wolffi I think and it gets to about 4 inches but from all my books I gather can be sensitive to water changes. Seem like a very nice fish, didn't find anything about agressiveness so you could have several.
Now I have had rams with my angels and they did great. When you get rams you need 1 male and 2 females. The reason for that is with one female the male focuses all his attention on one female and he can exhaust her. This is another one you have to keep pristine water for,
Although they pay you back in spades with beautiful color.
The discus are for another day for you and I. They need a much bigge,r calmer tank, lots of plants, perfect water. I have heard of people keeping Discus and angels together but I think its not recommended. Ok I have to take a breath now Hope that helps.
Carol

Isabella

True Carol, and I usually never look at the fishes scientific names. Foolish of me, I realize. But when I get to my pet store, I always get so fascinated by all the fishes and other animals they have, that I no longer have in mind their scientific names, lol. But I will definitely start paying attention to them, for my own benefit if no other reason! As for the Discus ... yes, so I hear and read - that they're extremely difficult to maintain and that everything has to be perfect with them. But what a display they make! I am not giving up, however, it will happen one day ... So for now I will look around for rams, dwarf gouramis, and maybe compatible glassfish. I don't know if I'll get any of them, but neither am I excluding such a possibility. So my tank would not be overstocked with 2 more fish like, for example, dwarf gouramis?

P.S. Would it be OK to get 2 female or 2 male rams, instead of 3 (1 male and 2 females) of them?

Great thanks Carol

Gunnie

I have read that gouramis and angels don't mix, but there are always exceptions. Maybe the dwarf gouramis would be an exception.

Keep your eyes open at used bookstore and online for the Baensch series of the freshwater fish atlases. There are 6 volumes. They usually sell the first 3 volumes for about $30.00 each new, so check for used books, and if you like garage sales, even better. Then when you see fish you like, you can look up the scientific name and know what you need to know about that fish before you buy it. If you can't find the Baensch series books, then just keep your eyes open for any tropical fish books you can find for cheap. Some of the other books don't always have the best information, especially if they are older books, because so much information changes in the hobby as we learn more about each species. Exotic Aquarium Fishes by William T. Innes used to be the standard, and I think started in print around 1930. As far as I know, this book is still being published, but you can get the older versions sometimes for $1.00 on ebay, and it's a great reference book for our purposes. So just find you a good reference book to take with you on your fish hunts, and you will be able to make a decision right then if you are gonna take that fish home. I was checking out the fish stores on Panama City Beach one day, and saw a beautiful royal pleco that was calling me. I refrained and came home without it because I didn't know if I had a tank to put it in. When I got home, I researched it online, and realized I did the right thing, but if I was able to get it, it would have been an hour and a half drive each way to go back.

Jason

You'll have to be lucky if the gourami you get wont be attacked. I put 2 in with my angels and they got torn apart. Evertime they came into the open they went staright back in as a big head was bolting towards them.

Butterfly

So there experience speaks for you Isabella. Since my Gouramis and angels were never together I couldn't say.
Carol

Isabella

Gunnie, and I have read that gouramis are compatible with angels, which is why I included them in my list of choices. Now I hear that you have read otherwise and J-Man says his gouramis got "torn apart" by angels (J-Man, do you mean that your angels eventually killed the gouramis?). And experience is probably a better source of advice than some internet article (although I have read that angels and gouramis mix in an aquarium book).

Having said this, I think I will refrain from buying any fish for now. I might try dwarf gouramis (metallic blue-red dwarf and honey dwarf) some time just to see if they'll mix, and if not, I'll return them to the store. If that won't work, maybe I'll try two male or two female rams. But thank you all so much for the advice

Jason

Not exactly torn apart but were bullied to the back corners of the tank and nipped them a few times. One died due to this the other later of dropsy. You could give them a go and see if there all right for a day or two see if they dont mind them too much.