Wyphy

I've mostly decided what I want to get, but thought I'd run it past you all first.

First:
Planted tank; 50/50 black Fluorite/black sand; not sure exactly which species I'll have, but a nearby LFS has a great selection, probably some Cabomba, Java Fern and/or Moss, some Crypts, maybe a Sword, Temple Plant (what I've seen it as, not sure if it's right), probably some Val; a variety.
Light : Nova Extreme SLR T-5 Fixtures, the 30" freshwater, so 48W T5HO.
Filter : AquaClear 50/200; 1 sponge, 2 BioMax.
Plus rocks and wood; going for a natural look so no resin decorations or pots.

So, as to fish, I am definitely getting Kuhli Loaches, saw them at the LFS and was sold basically that instant.
They also had some nice flesh colored White Cloud Mountain Minnows that I hadn't seen before, so I'd really like those; hope they still have them when I am ready.
Last would be Green Tiger Barbs. I know these can be nippy, though I had some before and didn't have problems, even with just 4 or 5 with Tetras and Rasboras.

I'm looking at about 5 or so of each with the stocking order being Minnows, Kuhlis, and the Barbs last.
Maybe 1-2 more Minnows and/or Kuhlis, not too sure.

I'm kind of leaning towards this being a bit overstocked, but Kuhlis are supposed to have a lighter bioload (so I understand), so I'm not too sure.
Opinions?
Thanks.

Angela_96

Tbe minnows are cold water fish where the barbs are tropical. You will need to choose cold water or tropical for the fish. The loaches as well will have to have heated water. Not to mention the plants.

Nick G

In New Zealand the Minnows are sold as Tropical Fish!

Jonah

I have a small school of Honey White Cloud Mountain Minnows living quite happily in my tropical tanks ~77deg

The minnows come from a temp range of 64-72 in the wild but the ones we buy at the lfs are bred in captivity and mainly in tropical tanks so they are adapted to the temp.

I know they are happy as they spawned, and fed the tank recently.

Pretty much in the same way that mollies, a brackish fish in the wild, are thriving and breeding in my tank at the same temp with no salt.

So long as they have space to swim and a decent current they are happy in a tropical tank they tend to frolic in the bubbles from the air stone and swimming in the current from the power head.

just make sure that you dont put anything big enough to eat them in the tank and they will be fine.

I am not sure that they will get along too well with the barbs though, they can get a bit nippy with tank mates.

Wyphy

I did notice the temperature difference, but as you said, they are mostly captive bred now and should be pretty well adapted. Still, it really isn't their optimal conditions to be in a 75-78F tank.

I was kind of going for an Asian species tank, since both the Barbs and Kuhlis are of Asian origin.
If anyone has other Asian suggestions I'd be glad to hear them. Not interested in Gouramis though.
Originally, I was going to go with Harlequin Rasboras, I've had them before, but the Minnows I saw were pretty striking; I'm still somewhat undecided on that.

Cherry barbs would be OK, but they would be basically the same color as the Rasboras, and the Minnows, so not as much color variety as I would like.

I tried to find a site that would sort species by country of origin but didn't really see any. Some would have a list of scientific names, but that doesn't really help me since I mostly have no idea what they are; I need one with pictures, and hopefully the more common ones.

Wyphy

Alright, so I've done some more thinking, considering of what I saw today, and some pictures from various places, I've come up with a new list; listed in most likely order of purchase.

Zebra Danio ~6
Kuhli Loach ~5
Cherry Barb ~6

Too much for a 29 planted?
I'd really like to have about 10 of the Danios and Barbs, but that's obviously overstocked, so that'll just have to wait for a bigger tank.

Gives me some red/pink color to contrast the green of the plants; and obviously still the Kuhlis.
I guess I hadn't really noticed the Danios since they mostly looked just silver and black, but photos show them having nice blue lines, so I guess it's just been poor lighting and/or slightly stressed conditions that would probably be typical in many LFS.

agabr123

i think that would be a really good number, although kuhli loaches are long (4 inches as adults) they have a pretty low bioload so don't let that number fool you. even with that, you really aren't overstocked. if you were diligent in your water changes you could probably get one small centerpiece fish such as a german blue ram or a dwarf gourami, but that might be a little too full. IMO, you could make it work and have healthy, happy fish.

Blub

Sounds like a lovely stock! Are you going to have a sand substrate?

Angela_96

If "captive breeding" changed water requirments for fish you could put a "captive bred" discus in 77 degree hard water. That is not true for fish, goldfish are coldwater, minnows are cold water, and so on. Even african cichilds that are captive bred still require low protien diets, and hard high pH water.

Even if they are sold as "tropical fish" you should research before you buy, lfs's are out to sell fish and make money. They do not care what water quality you are putting them in, if they die the lfs gets to sell more fish.

Wyphy

It's going to be a 50/50-ish mix of Fluorite and sand, black.

There's a difference between changing the temperature a few degrees and putting a fish in an environment completely different from it's natural state.
There are obviously seasons that get warmer or colder than normal, so do all the WCMM's (or any other species for that matter) die off because of the slightly different temperature? No, of course not. Some of the young or weaker ones may, or at least get sick, but in general, they adapt.

I'm not saying don't do any research; say, just toss a Largemouth Bass and 20 Tetras into a 50G tank, untreated tap water, and an 85 degree temp.
Research is important, and you should always create the best conditions possible for your aquariums.

And, in case you missed it, I changed my mind and will not be getting the WCMMs; the revised list is a couple posts up.

Also, while many stores are as you describe, not all of them are.
Some will not sell you fish that aren't suitable for your tanks, or the same day you buy a tank, won't sell you additives/junk you don't need, and are a wealth of information.
The lower quality stores are, I'm sure, a large majority of those in business, but the good ones are around.

Angela_96

My last post was not directed at you, and as a new member I would suggest that you not be so rude when posting.

Water temp requirements have more involved than just temp requirements, dissolved O2 percentages change w/ temps. Yes it does hurt the fish healthy or not. It makes them more prone to disease, etc. W/o the required o2 percentages in the water you do chance loosing the fish. Not only that at certain temps ammonia becomes more toxic. ANd so on, just a little info from a wife of a Enviromental Science/chem major. I have read liminology books for fun btw. And for O2 percentages involved w/ every living being I am more than qualified to speak up, I have had to learn o2 percentages in temps, and how it effects everything living as a part of my degree.

Also it will shorten a fish's life by raising the temp up just a few degrees. That is common aquarium knowledge.

And yes the fish do die off from the temp change, do you want a link to speak to a local biologist on fisheries here in TN? The year before last the temps were well above normal and we had huge fish die-offs, not to mention a whole lake "turned over" and killed a ton of fish just 30 min away from my home.

Yes, you should create a biotope. That is the best thing for the fish you choose, make sure they require the same water parameters, temp, ph, etc.

Wyphy

Just because someone is new to a particular forum does not mean that they have never used a forum before, and frankly, I think it's rude for those who've used a particular forum longer to assume so.

I also find it rude that you chose to reply with an attitude of 'I know much more than you because I have a degree'.
Above, I could have easily stated info about how long I've been using BBS's, mailing lists, and forums, as well as building and working on computers, and while that certainly isn't a doctoral thesis, it gives me plenty of experience posting. (Hmm, guess I just did; well I didn't get so involved as to mention the exact number of years at least)

If you want to direct a reply to a specific person or post, you should quote or name the intended, as you didn't do so, it should be expected that anyone may respond.

It was not my original intention to sound rude, though I freely admit that there was a definite coarse tone in this post, but I will say no more about it.

Angela_96

My "I know more than you because I have a degree" has nothing to do with the information in my post. I don't know more than everyone in fishkeeping or I wouldn't even belong to this forum, I got on this forum a year ago w/ the intentnion of learning more about fishkeeping so I would be more successful. I am also a newbie at saltwater fishkeeping.
As far as other forums, I am actually a moderator on a forum and have been for over 2 years. Its nothing to do with fish. I am the "go to" person for infant asthma issues. I had personal exeperience w/ my own child as well as professional in my job.

I stated what I did about the fish for the simple fact there are a lot of people who think that just because a fish is bred in captivity all the rules of specialty keeping does not apply. It very much does, especially when a fish requires a certain ph, temp, etc. No one would keep a discus in a 75 degree tank and expect the discus to survive, just as no one would keep an african cichild at 85 degrees and expect it to have a full long life. And the fact of temp changes do affect local lakes, etc. My degree doesn't have anything to do with enviromental science, my husbands does. I ask him at least every few days about things that he learned in school and on his internship in fisheries. It has helped me w/ fishkeeping greatly.

I too have learned from research, being on message boards, and then my personal knowledge of certain things that pertain to fishkeeping. That has made me very successful with my 10 tanks. I have had a lot of luck in breeding and selling my malawi mbuna, and soon trying my hands at west african cichilds. I have plat guppies that have filled a tank reproducing and I have no intention of selling them, guppies were the first group of fish that got me back into fishkeeping and I will always have a guppy tank. They are pretty to look at. I now give my guppy fry to my mil for her litttle tank.

I don't feel that we need to have any further discussion on the "rudeness".

I do welcome you to the forum, sorry if I sounded rude, overbearing, etc. Your last stocking list sounds wonderful, if its correct: Zebra Danio ~6
Kuhli Loach ~5
Cherry Barb ~6
I have always been a fan of the loaches, they are beautiful fish!

I hope everything goes well in your future with this hobby it is a wonderful hobby to be into. I got into this hobby because I had to stop working full time and be a stay at home mother to my 3 year old due to his health problems that he has grown out of now. The doctors said absoultly no daycare/babysitters with him. Now as he is old enough to go to preschool, and now completly healthy as luck has it I am now pregnant w/ my third child and will be at home for at least 5 more years. I work part time on weekends at the hospitial. So fishkeeping gives me something to do while being at home all the time. Its a release, relaxing to watch the fish, and even when everything is quiet in my home the sound of the water is relaxing. Of coarse I enjoy cleaning my tanks as well.