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September 12th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| 5 gallon stocking
My 4th tank (5 gallon) 18"has finished cycling. Which fish should I get or would make a nice centerpeice for my tank. ( i know, it's not much to work with...)
Last edited by Iron waffle; September 14th, 2008 at 04:10 PM.
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September 12th, 2008
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| | Fish Helper
| Well a betta will be the first thing people post here. Betta crazies.. Besides a betta you could probably do some shimp or some neon tetras. | |
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September 12th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| I forgot to say, no more bettas  | |
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September 12th, 2008
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| | Fish Mentor
| Neon tetras will not fit there, you need a ten gallon to make a decent school.
If no betta then your options are either a school of shrimp, or a dwarf puffer. | |
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September 12th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| What about 2 guppies or platies? Perhaps some dwarf cories? there's no dwarf puffers in nearby LFS. I LOVE shrimp but they're $4 each (1/2") YIKES. | |
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September 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Mentor
| for guppies, to prevent agression, you'd need at least 3, preferibly 4... same for platies. they are also VERY active fish, wouldnt recommend anything under 10 gallons for them.
Not really sure about the dwarf cories, what species are you looking at specifically?
you can get the dwarf puffer at liveaquaria.com | |
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September 13th, 2008
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| | Moderator
|  African Dwarf Frog, they're funny.
Edit:  Oh, it's not a fish, but fun all the same | 
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September 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| Yeah, the frog's a great idea. I might go for one except i don't know much about frogs. | |
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September 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Helper
| Dwarf Sunrise Platy, My 2.5 gal currently has 9 and they are fine, Add a couple plants and you could keep a dozen easy in a 5 gal. Max size is one inch and they pack nice red/orange/yellow color.
RK | |
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September 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Master
| Male Endler's livebearers. Ember tetras. Pygmy gouramis. There are loads of little fish out there you could have! | |
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September 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Mentor
| Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomKayos  Dwarf Sunrise Platy, My 2.5 gal currently has 9 and they are fine, Add a couple plants and you could keep a dozen easy in a 5 gal. Max size is one inch and they pack nice red/orange/yellow color.
RK | the rule of thumb for fishes up to 3 inches is "one inch per gallon of water" even though dwarf platies are small, their bioload is still 2 inches. By that logic you could have no more than 1 dwarf platy in a 2.5 gallons. (wouldnt recommend it since they are social fish and need swimming space).
your tank is seriously too small for even a single dwarf platy. it is dangerously overstocked as the bioload for that tank and the space is so limited.
as i said already. any tank smaller than 10 gallons is too small for any livebearer other than endlers.
Last edited by Alessa; September 13th, 2008 at 02:04 PM.
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September 14th, 2008
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| | Fish Helper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessa the rule of thumb for fishes up to 3 inches is "one inch per gallon of water" even though dwarf platies are small, their bioload is still 2 inches. By that logic you could have no more than 1 dwarf platy in a 2.5 gallons. (wouldnt recommend it since they are social fish and need swimming space).
your tank is seriously too small for even a single dwarf platy. it is dangerously overstocked as the bioload for that tank and the space is so limited.
as i said already. any tank smaller than 10 gallons is too small for any livebearer other than endlers. | Yes, General rule of thumb. This general rule is for a sterile enviroment, no filtration and no plants. The number of factors involved in keeping fish is sometimes difficult to comprehend. You need to take into account, the type of fish, are there plants, is there mechanical filtration and or biofiltration, Temp of the water, general pH, Frequency of water changes and so on. To keep it simple for beginners the "general rule of thumb" was created.
As for my tank, it is established, monitered, planted, mechanicaly and bio filtered. and stable. The test done just now give me a 0-0-11 and I have not done a water change in almost 2 weeks. You present the rule of thumb as a law and it's not. It's a general guide. By your law my tank should have crashed 2 years ago when it was set up. But another law i've broken is that I don't start with brand new sterile media. The gravel is recycled from previous tanks, I don't start with a clean filter pad ever, I use old pads in new tanks to get them off on the right foot. I don't use treated water in a new tank, I use water from another tank and replace that with the treated water. And, gasp! I use plants, in this case some micro sword that I keep trimmed to about half the tank and some floating anakris, about 15" on average. This dangerously overloaded tank has been fine for almost a year and a half.
I have produce several hundred fry during that time and I remove them on a regualr basis, There are currently 3 males and 9 females making it there home and they are healthy and breeding up a storm. This particular group has been the same for about 6 months. Prior to that I had 4 males and 8 females and when one of the males passed I replaced him with the best of the female fry I had in the grow out. I realize all this does not fit with your laws on fishkeeping but taking all of it into one picture it works, well.
RK | |
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September 14th, 2008
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| | Fish Master
| Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomKayos Yes, General rule of thumb. This general rule is for a sterile enviroment, no filtration and no plants. The number of factors involved in keeping fish is sometimes difficult to comprehend. You need to take into account, the type of fish, are there plants, is there mechanical filtration and or biofiltration, Temp of the water, general PH, Frequency of water changes and so on. To keep it simple for beginners the "general rule of thumb" was created.
As for my tank, it is established, monitered, planted, mechanicaly and bio filtered. and stable. The test done just now give me a 0-0-11 and I have not done a water change in almost 2 weeks. You present the rule of thumb as a law and it's not. It's a general guide. By your law my tank should have crashed 2 years ago when it was set up. But another law i've broken is that I don't start with brand new sterile media. The gravel is recycled from previous tanks, I don't start with a clean filter pad ever, I use old pads in new tanks to get them off on the right foot. I don't use treated water in a new tank, I use water from another tank and replace that with the treated water. And, gasp! I use plants, in this case some micro sword that I keep trimmed to about half the tank and some floating anakris, about 15" on average. This dangerously overloaded tank has been fine for almost a year and a half.
I have produce several hundred fry during that time and I remove them on a regualr basis, There are currently 3 males and 9 females making it there home and they are healthy and breeding up a storm. This particular group has been the same for about 6 months. Prior to that I had 4 males and 8 females and when one of the males passed I replaced him with the best of the female fry I had in the grow out. I realize all this does not fit with your laws on fishkeeping but taking all of it into one picture it works, well.
RK | That guideline is acctualy for an averagely maintained tank. Remember, there is a difference between surviving and thriving. A pleco in a 10gal tank will be stunted (they need at least 75gal), and therefore stressed and open to disease. Bettas should not be kept together as it almost (99 times out of 100) always results in fighting, and are very good toys for danios and tetras to nip if your talking males. Fish who are running into each other every 3cm are not happy - even though they look it. They can survive in bad conditions but never thrive.
We acctualy advise adding old filter pads and gravel if possible. | |
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September 14th, 2008
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| | Fish Helper
| I guess you are right. Definatly about the betta's, I don't keep more than on in a tank and i don't keep them in a community tank. At most with corys or otos.
As for the point of the thread, yes, there is a difference between thriving and surviving. My idea of surviving is fish that hide when they normally would be active, or hang in a corner, won't breed and the water smells. Thriving is breeding like rabbits. Active, interacting and in water I would consider drinkable. That is easily possible with 4 or 5 guppies or platties in a 5 gal aquarium with filtration and a some plants. I base this on my personal experience of keeping a dozen platies in a 2.5 gal and they are thriving. The water is clean, they have room to swim and places to hide if they wish. They breed constantly, in decent numbers and the fry, which are removed when found, are healthy and mature well in another 2.5 tank.
I understood this was a site to help foster and give good advise to fellow aquarists. And telling someone that a 5 gal aquarium will not support 5 platies or 6 neons is not good advise.
RK | |
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September 14th, 2008
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| | Moderator
| I see my neons in my 10g darting around and using the whole tank.
Then I look at my 5g and know they wouldn't have the room they should have to get a good swim in.
I have to agree with Alessa that although a 5g could support neons, why inhibit them?
Personally, I wouldn't put neons in a 5g. | |
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September 14th, 2008
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| | Fish Helper
| Ok, I'm out matched, I'll remain quiet from now on. I'll leave you with this though. I've seen Cardinals who have whole streams to swim in and the schools just flow for miles. I've seen Betta's with hundreds of square feet to do what they please. So why inhibit any of them in a tank? Because we want them. Somewhere along the line the general guidlines on stocking have changed but frankly the fish have not noticed. They don't have to patrole miles of stream or coastline to find food. They have people to care for them. Each of those people have different skill levels at maintaining thier tanks and setting what is right for their fish. Making someone else feel inadiquate or stupid because they don't agree with what you think is right is not fair.
The fact is I have done this for years. My fish are happy, healthy and well cared for. I have studied and tested and adjusted and learned. I don't point to a general rule and say it is law, I say the information provided in a general rule is exactly that. General. Putting a 10 inch fish in a 10 gal tank fits the rule but I wouldn't consider doing it. Putting 10 or 15 1 inch fish in a ten gallon tank does work.
Thanks for the insults, RK | |
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September 14th, 2008
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| | Moderator
| I'm sorry if of my posts came off as insulting, they weren't meant to be.
I gave my opinion just as everyone else has.
I don't find anyone who disagrees with my opinons as insulting, I see it as just another point of view. | |
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September 14th, 2008
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| | Fish Bum
| ts put in a small school of cherry barbs and plant the tank | |
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September 14th, 2008
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| | Fish Mentor
|  We never tried to insult RK, but rather respectfully disagree. we might have not been doing this for years, but yes, we try to do our best to provide our fish with an environment that is as comfortable as possible, since we can't always keep them in giant bodies of water, and that's all we meant. Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomKayos Ok, I'm out matched, I'll remain quiet from now on. I'll leave you with this though. I've seen Cardinals who have whole streams to swim in and the schools just flow for miles. I've seen Betta's with hundreds of square feet to do what they please. So why inhibit any of them in a tank? Because we want them. Somewhere along the line the general guidlines on stocking have changed but frankly the fish have not noticed. They don't have to patrole miles of stream or coastline to find food. They have people to care for them. Each of those people have different skill levels at maintaining thier tanks and setting what is right for their fish. Making someone else feel inadiquate or stupid because they don't agree with what you think is right is not fair.
The fact is I have done this for years. My fish are happy, healthy and well cared for. I have studied and tested and adjusted and learned. I don't point to a general rule and say it is law, I say the information provided in a general rule is exactly that. General. Putting a 10 inch fish in a 10 gal tank fits the rule but I wouldn't consider doing it. Putting 10 or 15 1 inch fish in a ten gallon tank does work.
Thanks for the insults, RK | | |
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September 14th, 2008
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| | Fish Mentor
| Quote:
Originally Posted by small-fish ts put in a small school of cherry barbs and plant the tank | Again, a school of anything wont fit. | |
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September 14th, 2008
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| | Moderator
| Even tho RK has had success in breeding his fish in a 2.5 gal tank, it still seems very small and inhibits any type of real swim room for the fish. No wonder they are breeding like rabbits in there, they are practically on top of each other! I dont mean that in the way it may come across, it is to mean that there just is no room in that tank for any movement. I understand RK to be old school in his fish keeping and has many years of experience and success under his belt. I remain open minded to all advice and experiences others here share but there is no way that I can possibly accept that a dozen d. platies would be happy in a tiny 2.5 tank. The fish may survive.. but can they really be very happy living in that situation? I just dont see it.
Comparing the swimming area's of wild fish cannot IMO justify the idea that we inhibit our fish since we put them in 'small' tanks compared to thier wild habitat. That is a huge difference and that is why we try to understock.. rather than overstock our tanks.
True the one inch per gal is a general rule and is in no way the 'law' and there are many exceptions to this rule.
Gilbert, I am not sure what you can put in that 5g tank other than a Betta. If you were able to upgrade to a ten gal tank you would more options to choose from.
EDIT: sorry, RK said he had nine d. platies in his 2.5 and not 12. But the sentiment still remains the same in my post. Just wanted to correct the number of fish I quoted RK as having...
Last edited by capekate; September 14th, 2008 at 02:39 PM.
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September 14th, 2008
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| | Moderator
| Dwarf puffer or killifish.
Dwarf puffers are tiny little guys (and you can often find them at Petsmart, at least around here). They absolutely need to have a tank to themselves, though.
Killifish are, I believe, another type of tiny fish that will go decently in a 5g tank. | |
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September 14th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| Whoa, I left for a day and look what i missed. LOL. Anyways, I totally agree, 1" fish/gallon is not a good rule,period. you'd barely have any fish in something like a 5g according to that rule, it's downright ridiculous. According to the rule,you could have not even have a proper school of tetras in a 10g, 5 fish at most and they'll shy away. Could a 10" oscar thrive in a 10 gallon tall? no. People seriously misinterpret this rule, therefore, it is misused. How much fish you can have comes down to your experience, cleaning frequency, peacefulness of the species and how active the fish is. there is no specific ratio to fish and volume of water that is truly reliable in all circumstances.
On a different note, thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming Where can you find killifish?
EDIT: it turns out the tank is 7.5g NOT 5 if it matters
Last edited by Iron waffle; September 14th, 2008 at 04:17 PM.
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September 14th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| I think it's either going to be:
1. another betta with a snail OR 2 otos
2. a dwarf butterfly cichlid | |
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September 14th, 2008
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| | ID master
| Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdarksol Killifish are, I believe, another type of tiny fish that will go decently in a 5g tank. | If you wanted, you could also use the 5 gallon as a breeding tank for some of your smaller fish. Or as a grow out tank to start out with. But a pair of killifish would be a great for a 5 gallon tank. And just the pair of killifish. | |
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September 15th, 2008
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| | Fish Master
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilbert Whoa, I left for a day and look what i missed. LOL. Anyways, I totally agree, 1" fish/gallon is not a good rule,period. you'd barely have any fish in something like a 5g according to that rule, it's downright ridiculous. According to the rule,you could have not even have a proper school of tetras in a 10g, 5 fish at most and they'll shy away. Could a 10" oscar thrive in a 10 gallon tall? no. People seriously misinterpret this rule, therefore, it is misused. How much fish you can have comes down to your experience, cleaning frequency, peacefulness of the species and how active the fish is. there is no specific ratio to fish and volume of water that is truly reliable in all circumstances.
On a different note, thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming Where can you find killifish?
EDIT: it turns out the tank is 7.5g NOT 5 if it matters | Well, you can have barely any fish in a 5gla anyway. I believe if you are takling small fish (tetras, platys etc) and apply compatibility and minimum tank sizes etc., it is acctualy fairly accurate, especially in small tanks like that. Remember, even if the tank is crytal clear, fish do like some personal space. Even my tetras need to get away from the crowd once in a while! 10-15" over is pretty much a decent rule for someone with some decent experience - as long as the tank is bigger than 29gal IMO. In anything much smaller it is unwise to be 'overstocked' according to that rule because of easily fluctuating water.
In my 7.5gal I'm going to have 6-8 ember tetras and 1 Betta imbellis.
Killis can be difficult to find, as most live for only a year, and for shops it is simply not profitable to breed them in mass. You can get eggs from specialists.
Dwarf cichlids really need around 15gal minimum. | |
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September 15th, 2008
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| | Fish Master
| Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomKayos I guess you are right. Definatly about the betta's, I don't keep more than on in a tank and i don't keep them in a community tank. At most with corys or otos.
As for the point of the thread, yes, there is a difference between thriving and surviving. My idea of surviving is fish that hide when they normally would be active, or hang in a corner, won't breed and the water smells. Thriving is breeding like rabbits. Active, interacting and in water I would consider drinkable. That is easily possible with 4 or 5 guppies or platties in a 5 gal aquarium with filtration and a some plants. I base this on my personal experience of keeping a dozen platies in a 2.5 gal and they are thriving. The water is clean, they have room to swim and places to hide if they wish. They breed constantly, in decent numbers and the fry, which are removed when found, are healthy and mature well in another 2.5 tank.
I understood this was a site to help foster and give good advise to fellow aquarists. And telling someone that a 5 gal aquarium will not support 5 platies or 6 neons is not good advise.
RK | Oops, my bad! I thought all the fish in your aquarium info where in the same tank. It would be easier to interperet if you spread out into the aquarium 2 and 3 spaces.
Thriving is being able to swim in a space big enough to accomodate their full grown size, with lots of space to swim (at least 6 times the fish's eventual length), and clean water. Surviving is more difficult. It can be how you describe it, or appearing to be happy but are really not satisfied and cannot grow to full size and is deprived from the privelages that it should have. Hiding away etc., is actually a sign of illness. I'm sure that a dog in a cage may not have an infection, but it's not happy. That is how almost everyone here interperets thriving/surviving.
A breedign fish isn't always thriving - Livebearers breed even if surviving. I've seen in so many times like that - thats just one of those livebearer things. A lot of fish do need to be thriving to breed though - take apisos for example. | |
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September 15th, 2008
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| | ID master
| Quote:
Originally Posted by HatchetHaven Killis can be difficult to find, as most live for only a year, and for shops it is simply not profitable to breed them in mass. You can get eggs from specialists. | Killifish can be hard to find, but you just need to know where to look. And only the Nothobranchis genus live for a year, the rest can live for about 3-5 years, some even longer.
Tom | |
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September 16th, 2008
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| | Fish Bum
| if my LFS told me they breeded a dozen platies in a 2.5G tank, I wouldn't buy them. Simple as that. Stressed fish making stressed babies. | |
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September 16th, 2008
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| | Fish Master
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo3olous if my LFS told me they breeded a dozen platies in a 2.5G tank, I wouldn't buy them. Simple as that. Stressed fish making stressed babies. | Also possibly deformed babies | |
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