kld2113

Hi all,
This is my first post to the message board. my question is regarding my 10 gallon tank.
A month or so ago, I had an ick outbreak that killed all my fish so I just recently restocked the tank. I now have a Blue Botia, Angelish, Paradise Fish, and Bolivian Ram. Everyone seems to get along fine but just a few questions regarding behaviors -

The Blue Botia NEVER comes out of his hiding place way deep in a castle type rock I have - to the point you cant even see him in there. I've seen him out a few times, but only for a few minutes at a time and only in the evening. I knew he was nocturnal, but is this normal to hide this much? Also, if he were to die, would he just rot inside of the rock? I'm nervous about this kind of stuff since my terrible ick outbreak!

The Paradise and Bolivian Ram are buddies, they are cute to watch together. But the Angelfish seems alittle afraid of them and does his own thing. It's clear that the head of the tank is the Botia because the few times that he does come out of hiding - everyone swims away from him and he dominates the tank.
That being said, I'm thinking of adding one more fish into the tank (you think ok for a 10 gallon?) - any suggestions on a good addition given the current situation in the tank?

Thanks!

Lucy

Hi kld, Welcome to Fish Lore

It sounds like you have a couple of things going on.
First, is your tank cycled? If not, this is a good article to read:
http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

Unfortunately, your tank is overstocked. The rule of thumb is 1" of fish per gallon of water (depending on the fish).
When stocking your tank, always go by the adult size of your fish.

Blue Botia 8-10"
Angelfish, 6"
Paradise Fish 4"
Bolivian Ram 2-3"

That's at least 20" of fish in a 10g tank.

I'm guessing your ammonia levels are up. Do you test your water? If so, with what (the strips aren't accurate) what are your water parameters?

Also, but I'm not 100% positive, I don't think some of your fish are compatible with your ram, that's probably why they are hiding.

I'd recommend either getting another tank and separating them or returning the incompatible fish to the store, if possible.

Whew, sorry for all the questions, others will chime in shortly and correct anything I may have gotten wrong.

Good luck with your tank, and please ask any questions you have, this is a great forum.

kld2113

Thanks for the response!

Tank is cycled - it has been running for over a year. I had a bunch of fish this past year that were doing well, until the ick outbreak which killed them all. I have a tester kit, all the levels are fine. The ph was a bit high but I recently put in a piece of driftwood which brought it down to about 7.2.

The ram is actually very low key, he doesn't chase anyone and keeps to himself. If I had to pick the most aggressive fish, it would be the paradise, which surprised me. However, I read that Botia's are nocturnal and usually hide, am I mistaken?

Also, the angelfish is very small - about 2". The guy at the store said that's pretty much as big as he will get, length wise. Am I still overstocked? Is this going to cause problems down the road for me?

Lucy

Even if you counted the angel as 2" a 10g tank can't handle the bio load of your fish. It's not necessarily the size of the fish, it's the waste they produce.

I don't know the characteristics of your particular fish, I looked at the profiles to see what size they get.

But, yeah, I think you'll have problems if you don't get a larger tank. Until then, keep up with your water changes.

Maybe someone else will have a different opinion, but I think I'm pretty close with the recommendations.

Good luck.

Allie

Blue botias need to be in groups of 3 or more and cannot live in a 10g. Ti keep all of those fish I recommend a 50g+.
Angelfish should not be in anything smaller than a 20g they won't grow properly.
10g is too small for a lot of fish that you want to keep. You need a bigger tank soon if you want your fish to survive. Sorry.

Allie

The fish guy is totally wrong. Angelfish will get 6" tall and 4" wide, at least depending on the type of angel you have. Only 2 angelfish can fit in a 20g together and live happily.
You are WAY OVER stocked. Sorry.

kld2113

Thank you everyone for all the feedback - If these fish don't end up making it and I need to start over/restock - does anyone have suggestions for what to fill a 10g tank with? I'd prefer to have 4-5 fish if possible (so I'm assuming smaller guys) and one's that are fun to watch/interact.

Also my other question is - since the Botia doesn't come out of hiding much, if he happens to die, will he float out of the rock he's burried in, or will he possibly stay in and rot? I'm worried about that.

Lucy

I'm an optimist, let's try and get these guys happy.

I know tanks are expensive try checking out Freecycle.org and Craig's List, you might be able to find a good deal.

If a larger tank is not possible, can you return them? I think that's what I would try to do before waiting to see if they'll die.

A small school of tetras and a single betta would do fine in a 10g.

Lucy

ooopps....meant OR a betta, not tetras and a betta together!

Allie

I'd say a betta and some otos, like 3 should be fine. Otos do best in groups of 3 or more, but in a 10g you only have room for 3 at the most. Make sure you have hiding spots for the otos so they can hide if the betta get bossy with them. Regular water changes, 25% once a week should keep em happy.
Something I always recommend before getting fish is to research them so you know what you are dealing with before you go to buy fish. Go to your fish shop write down the names of the fish you like & google the names when you come home. There is so much info on internet about fish. It'll save you from killing fish and having to buy more.

kld2113

So I called the fish store and they said you can only return/exchange fish after 48 hours and I've had these guys for about a week and a half. That being said, I have to keep them for now and hope the overstocking issue does not kill them so quickly! I am concerned with the Botia however, he never comes out of hiding - even though I'm overstocked, would it make sense to add another one of his kind into the tank? I have been reading they don't like being alone.

angelfish220

If you want these fish you NEED a bigger tank. I would say a 55+ That is the only way your fish can stay healthy. I wouldnt keep them in there much longer you need to get a bigger tank.

kld2113

If I get another tank, do I need to cycle it first with other fish or can I put these guys in immediately?

angelfish220

You can 'seed' it with gravel from the existing tank. basically it is taking some of the gravel, which has bacteria growing on it and putting it in a mesh bag (the foot of a stocking workes fine) and transfering it into the new tank. Then you have the bacteria so you are cycled.

Leave the gravel in there a couple of days for the bacteria to transfer over and you are good.

Lucy

It's much more humane to do a fishless cycle.
http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

In your 10g, what are your readings for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates?

You can seed it with a peice of filter media from your other tank, (if it is in fact cycled) some gravel or a decoration. Even then you would have to add them slowly in order for the bacteria to catch up to the bio load.

kld2113

hey all - so you were all correct in your advice as the angel fish died and now the bolivian ram is acting odd. i've learned a good lesson to do more research before purchasing fish. is it common to get false advice from people at the fish store?

so i'm also learning that a 10g is not a very big tank and you are limited in how you can stock it. that said, im sticking with it for now til i get better at this, and then i can move onto the larger sizes. a few questions though...

the angel fish died now within a week of having him and the bolivian ram is swimming slow and has an orangish color on his underbelly. what exactly are the fish dying from? they are still small in size, but does that not matter?

in terms of restocking, i'd like to do alittle variety of species if possible and also put in some visually appealing fish with fun personalities to watch. per the reccos i got, i looked up the otos and i wasn't thrilled, and i had a betta for years in the past so i don't want to go with that again. im wondering if anyone has other suggestions for me? can i put about 4-5 small fish in the tank?

sorry for all the questions, my first set of fish in this tank lived for a year so i didn't realize there was more to it. i guess i got lucky!

angelfish220

They are probably dieing from nitrates. They are just too big, even if they are 'little' now they produce as much waste as an adult.

for a ten gall I would say...

2 honey gouramis- 4 inches
3 endler males---- 3 inches
cherry shrimp------no bioload

They are all colorful and active species and the cherry shrimp will help keep the tank clean. My avatar is a honey gourami if you dont know what they look like.

Lucy

Sorry you lost your angel.