Chief_waterchanger

Don't start a flame/arguement war please, just sharing my frustration.

*The 1 inch of fish per 1 gallon of water by and large does NOT hold true. Especially when you factor in biomass load, mass of fish in width and height as well as length, and tons of other factors that are species specific.

*I know most people want a rubber stamp on what they're doing, not the true opinion/fact of others. However, I will continue to tell people when their tanks/ponds/etc are overstocked, reguardless of what they want to hear.

*I truely do not understand the mentality of folks who think overstocking to get everything they want in the tank they have/want is somehow better for the fish than keeping it stocked at or under its bio-limit.

This is mainly a post to let people know that overstocking is NEVER a good idea. It will almost always cause either stunted growth, more disease, chemical imbalance, unsightly/unhealthy deformalities (such as bent fins), etc. I just ask that people keep in mind that overstocking animals/pets of any sort is not only unhealthy but down right cruel.

Again, I ask that flame wars not be started here. This thread is not meant to be hijacked into other topics, and is not meant to sound rude/mean, and is not directed at any person in particular. It is aimed at ANYONE who is too... stubborn to listen to advice given by knowledgable people.

Have a nice day!

Chief_Waterchanger

Tom

All I see fit to say to that is, amen(sorry if I affend anyone).
Tom

COBettaCouple

i don't think it helps that all the tank boxes show about 10 times the amount of fish that should go in the tank. And i've yet to go in a LFS/LPS that would say a word about the bioload.

MamaM

I know right now one of my tanks is overstocked--if I could stop my fish from having babies, I would! Seriously, I wonder about that, too. The aquariums at my kids' preschool tend to be overstocked. Not terribly, but enough for me to express concern without offending (I do have to maintain a good relationship!). I've even offered to buy them more tanks...*sigh*

COBettaCouple

maybe you can get a little sign to put in the tank (Like a "wash me" on a car) saying "change my water"?

Callum The Cat

MamaM

Cool idea! The bad thing is, the water's really pretty clean (I gave them a siphon and seen them use it!) & well taken care of. There's just a lot of fish in one tank!

COBettaCouple

hmm.. maybe a sign saying "we're not sardines, people!"?

MamaM

I absolutely LOVE that one!!!!!

mlinden84

What about cichlids? Is it really a good idea to overstock on them to cut down on their aggressiveness? I only have 5 African cichlids in my 55 gallon right now, but I was told to get 12-15 of them so they wouldn't be as territorial. Is this a good idea?

atmmachine816

LFS's overstock their tanks because they do water changes almost everyday, sell their fish faster, and keep their tanks clean and this isn't a long term situation. (at least most do)


That's what I've read, but don't know a lot about cichlids.

Butterfly

Most LFS have a central system that circulates water through the tanks and so more water is there than just whats in the individual tanks. As ATM said these aren't their permanent homes so they don't stay there in those conditions like they would if they were in your home aquaria.

atmmachine816

O ya forgot about that too, most mine do that too, though one store doesn't.

armadillo

Well am overstocked because I didn't know about stocking, then I ended up buying more tanks, then we had to split some fish up for aggression, then I had to get that fish companions as he was getting really depressed, and now I've got these in the same tank. What I mean is that there are circumstances and past mistakes and bad planning that will result in overstocking, and as much as I love my fish, I just can't afford to be buying ANOTHER tank. So we're looking at our options for now, am overstocked unfortunately (7 adult mollies + a million fry in a 30G = at least 30 inches worth of fish).

atmmachine816

I'm overstocked also, but I take care of my tanks and I've had no deaths so I'm OK.

Butterfly

Doing the water changes does make a big difference but what CWC is talking about I believe is deliberately overstocking.
Carol

Chief_waterchanger

Yeah, mainly the deliberate overstocking or doing it after being told it is a bad idea. I don't get upset at people who mean well but made honest mistakes, we all do that.

There's a difference between stocking to the point that territories can not be established, thus lessening cichlid aggression (mainly east african rift cichlids) (Malawi, Tanganyika, Victoria), and overstocking the tank to the degree of it being only a matter of time to imminent tank crash.

I do agree that filtration plays a huge role also. Meaning that 20 angelfish juveniles in a 55g tank are probably fine with good filtration, where as a 20 full size adult angelfish would need no less than a canister filter in the same size of tank.

Stradius011

Ugh..I got my friend interested to fishkeeping but hes overstocking his 10 gallon pretty bad. He has 2 platies, 2 guppies, 2/3 corys, and 1 raphael catfish. I told him that they grow to 8.5 inches but he says Petco told him that it'll stop growing. =/

COBettaCouple

well, we're guilty of overstocking a 10g (i think).. we're not sure how big they'll get but we have 4 platys and 4 balloon platys in a 10g tank.. the balloon platys are going to be lucky to get to an inch each i think, so it's not too far over and that tank gets 2 or 3 cleanings with water changes per week.

armadillo

Yeah, I think that's also one of hte biggest contributors to overstocking: petstore advice. (I refer you back to my initial experience of the petshop lady trying to throw in a couple MORE common plecs to my stock for my tall hex - 10G!)

armadillo

Yep, that'd take some cleaning (dirrrrrty mollies)

armadillo

That's my position too.

If you tell someone and they deliberately ignore your advice, then it verges on cruelty by negigence I think.

But at times, circumstances will push you and you just have to look for a way of sorting it out, even if it's in the long-term future and they do need to go on living in a slightly overstocked situation until the solution has arrived

sgould

As a general rule, people do not like being told what to do. Consequently, there is a percentage of the population that will do something pretty much just because they were told they shouldn't.

Butterfly

I agree but when people ask for that advice then deliberately ignore several people telling them the same thing. thats just cruel.
carol

COBettaCouple

well we've not had mollies, but the platys are pooping machines and sounds like the mollies are even worse.

armadillo

Oh really? I was hoping for every platy owner's sake that they poo'ed less than mollies. But, like I keep saying from the depths of my trauma, the puffers must be the absolute worst, EVER!

atmmachine816

O ok, ya most of the time people just don't know because most petstores just have teenagers working since they are the only one's who will take the minimum wage job. I see what you mean when people ask and are told then still don't do it, I just don't let those type of people bother me, they do that in other ways of life and if you let everybody bother you, I don't want to think what would happen, just have to try your best to correct those that listen.

susitna-flower

Great topic, I agree, and though I WAS badly overstocked for a time, it is all squared away now. I think that is all part of fish keeping, the learning curve and what I see is just strictly immaturity. This is why ATM so throughly surprises me constantly. Did you all really appreciate what he said about helping those who will listen, and not letting the others bother you. Fish overcrowders will take care of themselves. It is a total shame they get bad advice from LFS's just wanting to sell fish, or from their likewise immature friends, but at some point they will kill off all their fish, or just get so tired of having problems that they quit.

What we need to do, to continue helping those who listen, is to adopt a kind approach, tell people about the "1 inch/gall rule of thumb", and you are right, that doesn't cover every situation and can lead to overcrowding, but is just meant to be a starting point, easy for most beginners to understand. What won't help is TANK RAGE - just like ROAD RAGE, doesn't solve a driving problem out on a hot busy overcrowded highway!

Fish in the Frozen North

atmmachine816

O I think I worded it wrong. I meant to help and tell everybody that you can and those that don't listen and don't care, think they know it all not bother you. I didn't mean it that they can take care of themselves. I meant help everybody that you can but those that just won't listen, don't let them get to you, just keep a positive attitude and don't be discouraged.

susitna-flower

I don't think you were confusing, I agree with what you said, and my statement of overcrowders was what was confusing.

ATM, I was agreeing with you about helping those who you can, and not letting the rest bother you. You are wise beyond your years, and it is a testament to several years on this forum, but also to wise parents, and just a willingness yourself to think about things. Life is to short to take on battles that just go round and round, when there are tons of folks out there that truly do want to be responsible fish owners.

There are also many that get themselves in a fix - for a short time, and do everything in their power to change their conditions but still have to, for short term just deal with overcrowding.

I don't think ANYONE here wants even one fish to suffer, or any fish keeper to get discouraged and not enjoy this wonderful hobby. But like Chief Waterchanger stated, those who are too stubborn to listen.......end up with problems, and eventually will fall away, so .....

Pray for the little fish

Fish in the Frozen North