cicatriz

hi all,

i have a question about using soil as part of substrate... i have a bag of miracle grow potting soil here and i was wondering what sort of things i should be worried about being in it?

thanks,

cicatriz

atmmachine816

I don't know a whole lot of using soil but I know it's usually not advised unless you do a special planted tank which I doubt you want to do. You can look on the bag and it will probably have lots of chemicals in it. The soil will probably be hard to keep from mixing up in your tank and other things. I would advise against it. I grow my plants fine in regular gravel. If you wish to have a special substrate then you can buy one, there are types out there.

cicatriz

i had read in various sources that often the key to good plant growth is adequate substrate. this can be achieved by using good soil. i have seen numerous examples on the web of beautiful planted tanks that use soil under gravel (as i would like to).

the reason i am keen on using soil in the substrate is because i will only be getting about 2watts per gallon out of the lighting and will not be using co2 injection.

could you please explain, beyond the mess factor, why i wouldnt want to use soil as a layer of substrate?

the most light intensive plant i will be using is a ruffled amazon sword (which i have read is less dependent on high light than the other varieties of sword), everything else will be java ferns, anubius, and crypts

sirdarksol

The only problem that I could see is that miracle gro is really high in decomposing organic material, which means lots of nitrates/nitrites that will dissolve into the water. If you plan on having fish, you'll probably have to wait quite a bit while the plants/bacteria manage to get control of this. I'm not sure of this, as I haven't studied the effects of soil on water. I have, however, done quite a bit of research on soil; what works for growing what plants and why.
If it were me, (and it probably will be in the very near future), I would use a substrate specifically made for aquarium plant growth combined with fertilizer tablets. Also, make sure you look for plants that can handle low light. I found a site in the past that allows you to search by a plant's lighting requirements (or temp requirements), but I can't find it right now. When I do, I'll post it. I've found a great quote regarding plants. "Plants have a few basic requirements that must be met if they are to survive and to thrive. If any one of these factors are in limited supply, the others are effectively wasted (and usually algae takes advantage of these leftovers)."
I've not had a chance to test this in an aquarium, but I know that it is true for terrestrial plants.

Butterfly

Diana Walstad used soils in her aquariums and even has a book on the subject. I believe Isabella did some research on hte idea.
Carol

cicatriz

i guess i have lots of research left to do... thank you for the tip on the author btw.

i am very conscious of the plants i am choosing as far as light levels go. i believe plantgeek has a search feature that lets you browse by light requirements.

cicatriz

Butterfly

Yes plantgeek.net has an option to search by light requirements. Heres a google on Diana Walstad if you want it
http://www.google.com/search?q=Diana+Walstad
Carol

griffin

soil isn't necessarily a bad substrate for a planted tank, as long as you (or whatever's in your tank) doesn't go digging/stirring things up a lot. putting a sand and/or gravel layer on top is definatly a good call. that'll slow the nitrates and such from diffusing as quickly into the water, and keep it where the plant roots are.

if you decide to go the soil substrate method, let me know how it goes!

cicatriz

from what i read on a diane walstad page (thanks for the google link btw) she tests soils she is uncertain of in a jar prior to using them.

i have already ordered her book on amazon .

i am going to test the miracle gro stuff in a jar (inlc. a top layer of gravel) to see how the water chemistry is effected.

i will post my results online with a more detailed description of the soil.

sirdarksol

Good idea. I hadn't thought about trying it in a smaller system, like a jar.

Thanks for the plantgeek info. I couldn't find the website I had found before, and I'm wanting to start a planted tank with relatively low light.

cicatriz

okay,

here are the plants im going to be using in this set up.

3 varieties of cryptocoryne:
foreground group 1: wendtii
foreground group 2: willisii
background: crispatula var. balansae - from what i have read these get very tall, hopefully a good background plant for my lowlight setup

african water fern (on driftwood)
lace java fern (on rocks)
anubius nana (on rocks)

and a group of anachris in the back...

does anyone think that these plants may not work in 2 to 2.5wpg tank?

Butterfly

All sound good to me. The african water fern (Bolbitis heudelotti) takes a little longer to attach than the other plants with Rhizomes. Mine attached faster to wood than rock.
You may have some algae on your slower growing plants(Anubias, java fern,african water fern) with that much WPG
Someone was telling me about Schultz aquatic soil, http://www.watergardensupply.com/Sch...oil-p/1067.htm but if you have diggers in your tank you might want to put a layer of gravel over it.
Here is more about substrate choices for aquaria
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_substrate.htm
Carol

cicatriz

the tank is 30inches tall so i dont anticipate alot of those 2wpg reaching the anubius and java fern - hopefully this will curb the algae.

does anyone have any suggestions for a lowlight plant not on this list - or maybe a really interesting variety of anubius or crypt?

Butterfly

Anubias coffefolia is one of my favorites
http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=200
Heres a pic of mine
Anubias x. 'Frazeri' is also a favorite
http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=209
Crypts are another favorite plant because they are so easy to grow.
CRYPTOCORYNE wendtii comes in green and bronze and make a striking display when mixed.
Heres a whole selection of Crypts http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_...ne&type=Search
Hope that helps
Carol

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cicatriz

good suggestions - how big does the coffee leaf get?

i really like the idea of bronze/green wendtii mix - i hadnt considered it before.

Butterfly

My Coffee leaf is about 5-6 inches tall and they spread laterally which makes it nice. Yes the mix of the two colors of crypt can be quite striking especial if you have a big grouping
Carol

Isabella

As far as I have read, soil in itself is not dangerous in a planted tank, and it's even better than gravel in many instances. But the soil has to be pure, natural, with no chemical additives (no chemical fertilizers) whatsoever. I think most packaged soils that you buy at stores do have a lot of chemicals and fertilizers in them. So you have to be careful. Carol has mentioned Diana Walstad. I have read her brilliant book and I LOVED it. You should read this entire thread: http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewt...394&highlight= (it talks about tanks with soils vs. tanks with gravels). You should also read Diana Walstad's book: Ecology of the Planted Aquarium: A Practical Manual and Scientific Treatise for the Home Aquarist. If you do as she tells you to, you should be OK. I would be very careful if I were buying packaged soil. Diana recommends natural soil from your backyard AS LONG AS it hasn't been sprayed with any pesticides and other chemicals and fertilizers. I actually want to set up such a tank myself.

Once again, read the book for your own advantage - it will really help you. Good luck

Butterfly

Thanks Isabella! I searched and searched and couldn't find that thread although I knew it was there LOL
Carol