armadillo

OK, that's it. I am sick of watching all my plants looking brown and horrible. I am going to start taking this plant stuff seriously. Sooo, y'all green wet fingers out there. Any tips?

Here's some specific questions:
- good, robust plants for beginners
- what's the deal with CO2? Does it need a pump? Is the pump loud? Can it hurt the fish? Is it necessary unless you really want a heavily planted tank?

Marc

Plants I got to grow in my 55 gallon w/ less than 1 WPG: Next to none. Any Swords died, and any Anacharis grew very, very little. Java Fern did wonderfully, though I'm not too sure how much it grew - I left a small Fern in a 5 gallon (2 wpg) for a few months and it grew to the size of a softball when squished together, but it split up when I put it in the tank. I do have an Anubias sp., but I forget the exact name. Something "swamp".

Essentially, you can easily get away with some big Java ferns (just keep in mind the leaves dying when new in a tank is common), Anubias, and Anacharis or other low light stem/floating plant. Floating plants, by the way, should do very well, considering they get ALOT of light. Floating plants have been the easiest plants I've ever kept.

armadillo

Thanks, Marc. What do you do with the floating plants? I mean do you anchor them on something or do you leave them to drift around?

Isabella

Yes, CO2 CAN hurt your fish, which is why I chose to have a planted tank without CO2. If a CO2 device malfunctions, it will kill ALL of your fish at once. I've heard of this happening to people who lost all of their fish this way. Which is why, once again, I don't want to risk this in any of my tanks by CO2 addition. But, it's all up to you of course. I am not saying this malfunction will happen to you, lol. All I am saying is what will happen to your fish IF such malfunction ever does happen in your tank.

Now, is it possible to have a heavily planted tank without CO2 injections? Yes it is, and many people have BEAUTIFUL tanks without using CO2 devices. My tank is not yet "heavily" planted but it will be (very soon ). I've never used CO2 injections ever since I set up my planted tank, and my plants are doing very well. If you want your plants to grow super fast, then use CO2. If you're content with normal/slow growth, then you can easily maintain a beautiful planted tank without CO2 injections. Go to PlantGeek.net to see what beautiful tanks people are able to have without CO2 injections.

Here are some examples:
http://plantgeek.net/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=162
http://plantgeek.net/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=688
http://plantgeek.net/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=20)

If you want to go with a low-light fully planted tank, simply read the guide: http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/index.php?topic=12673.0. If, however, you want a tank with CO2 injections, I recommend that you go to PlantGeek.net and ask any CO2-related questions there. They really know a lot about it. I've never set up a tank with CO2 injections so I wouldn't know how to help you with that. I do know, however, that if you want to use CO2, you definitely need to have a nutrient-rich substrate/plant tabs + liquid fertilizer + medium/medium-high to high lighting. With CO2 injections, you'll be able to grow more kinds of plants.

As for good low-light plants, these are: Anubias (various kinds), Java Ferns (there are at least 2 varieties), Java Moss (and other mosses), as well as Water Sprite and Hornwort in my experience.

armadillo

Wow. Thank you so much for taking the time, Isabella. That is totally clear.

Mmmmh. Don't like the idea of CO2 if there's any risk to the fish. Nah, don't need fast growing. Just don't want leaves that go brown easily. It's a bit of a nitrate hazard, and esthaetically not that great.

I checked those links and indeed, not a trace of brown.

I'll check out the Fishlore guide.

Isabella

You're welcome

Just a note: You may still be getting some algae even in heavily planted low-light tanks. It's always best having good algae eater(s) in any planted tank such as Otos, BN plecos, and true Siamese Flying Foxes.

I had some algae starting to grow in my planted tank, but my algae eater took care of everything for me

armadillo

LOL. My algae eater (baby BN) wouldn't know algae if it bit him in the butt! Time to teach that fish some table manners, I say. Mr doesn't mind the cucumber you understand.

Isabella

LOL I see he's gotten very comfortable there!

armadillo

Yep, he's definitely at ease, the spoilt little so and so, at Laure-Anne's hard-knocks school for fish!

MrWaxhead

Yes you for sure can grow several species of plants with no c02 but there are also many that you can't without c02 or good lighting. And its not only speed of growth that it changed. It is very rare to get a non c02 injected tank to go into a full tilt pearl. And for me I love watching my corries or cardinals or pearl gouramis playing in a mound of riccia that is in full pearl and having heaps of natural oxygen bubbles float to the surface.

But that being said, I have also ran a few low light non c02 tanks for the shear lack of maintenance. Most stem plants and riccia etc grows like mad in high light high c02 environments, and you end up being a aquarium lumberjack at the bare minimum of once a week to cut things back. But there are some benefits to that too though, many lfs will take good healthy plants in trade for store product etc. So if you have a healthy algae free tank with fast production you can bank up store credit in a hurry.

And as far as c02 being a danger in a tank (and yes there are, i have seen people having the last portion of there tanks dump very fast. DIY users getting a tank full of yeast, people with ph controllers that had buffering agents in there tank etc etc). I find its no different then any thing else, ie overfeeding, overfertilizing etc etc. Its just about balance and knowing your tank and equipment and paying close attention to your fish and tank if you make any changes. Once you know your tank and equipment its pretty much a sit back and relax and perform routine maintenance.

armadillo

Thank your for your insight, MrWaxhead.

With regards to CO2, really my objective is to achieve healthy plant growth, I wouldn't even need fast growth or anything. So you're totally confirming what Isabella's saying (great! consensus in the aquarium world) and solidifying my understanding: I do not need CO2 for what I want to achieve.

I think I'll go for plants that do well in low lighting, as you both suggested.

Isabella, MrWaxhead, I think I know where am going wrong: the roots. The one tank I have where plants thrive has this really deep substrate, the bottom layer of which is mind of earth. I couldn't keep up with maintaining such a deep substrate on all my tanks (that was my first tank), but am having awful trouble keeping my plants rooted in the thin substrat tanks.

Also, would you recommend the use of fertilizers? My LFS gave me away as sample a fertiliser pill to bury close to the plant. I was worried it might hurt the fish. What's been your experience of fertilizers and ease of use/safety.

MrWaxhead

What did you mean as far as maintaining your substrate? I personally don't vacuum mine at all I let the plants have at the waste. And as far as low light plants, most plants like java moss and fern and anubis etc don't even get planted in the substate they get tied to wood etc (they are water column feeders), and with low light you will have less demand for ferts. You could probably get away with minimal dosing of iron and trace element/micros. I use seachem flourish iron and trace for those, your fish bio load may be enough for your macros. If you find your plants are suffering you could dose for those as well with flourish nitrogen, potassium or phosphorus. Macros are touchy though as to much and you will feed algae.

For your root feeders the fert pill the your lfs gave you was probably just a root tab, the seachem ones look like little black volcanoes kinda. You just insert them in the soil near your plants and they will slowly feed the roots for a few months. I have never had a problem with root tabs harming any of my fish or inverts ever. If your not going to go any form of c02 flourish excel can help somewhat with getting a carbon source into your tank, it is not a replacement for c02 injection but it does help.

armadillo

Thanks, MrWaxhead. Gawd I feel silly calling you that. What was your first name again (sorry, memory like a sieve)?

You see I will still need to vaccuum my substrate as long as I am a failing aqua-gardener, which I sadly still am, LOL. What I mean is that I have planted the plants now (can't remember what they are but I'll look it up again. I wrote it down and it's on a piece fo paper somerhwere in the house), and planted the fertiliser pill, and bought some liquid fertiliser too (no phosphate or nitrate or funny pH effect or danger for fish). YOu're supposed to alternate pill/liquid week on week. Also got more substrate. Added finer, dark substrate. So now my plants are nicely rooted, but I"ll still give my gravel a shake once a week, to see if a lot comes out. If it does, I'll really have to vaccuum, won't I?