Red wag platy

Hi i'm doing a project on the nitrogen cycle for my science class using different types of "liquid bacteria" and I was wondering whether the water needed to be circulated in order for it to cycle. I'd rather not spend a whole bunch of money on filters if they're not necessary.

riddik1

quote "Hobbyist aquaria often do not have sufficient bacteria populations to adequately denitrify waste. This problem is most often addressed through two filtration solutions: activated carbon filters absorb nitrogen compounds and other toxins, while biological filters provide a medium designed to enhance bacterial colonization." colonizationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquarium#Nitrogen_cycle
so i think that means you would need some kind of filter media and water flow or the cycle might stall out before completion. maybe a good air pump and some filter foam? would probably be the cheapest option... maybe someone else will know more but cool idea for a science project!

fishingman001

Why not just use cheap sponge filters?

JRDroid

I would think it would be a good idea just to keep the water from going stagnant. You will also need either sponge, ceramic, gravel, or sand for the bacteria to colonize. Sponge or ceramic would be the best (and probably cheapest) solution. You will also need ammonia. Pure ammonia (available at ace hardware) would probably provide the best results for a science experiment.

As far as water movement, you could do it fairly cheap:
1 of thses http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=3742976
plus 1 of these http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2752202
plus as many of these as you need: http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=3788233

riddik1

great minds think alike. some just say it clearerer than others lol!

aquarist48

Good morning,

I have moved your thread to the Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle section of the forum.

Thanks!

Ken

Tigerfishy

Yes, a tank cannot cycle without some kind of housing for bacteria, this is the filter.

The good news is that if you surf through the DIY section, there are ways of making your very own sponge filter for only pennies. Or free if you already have the materials...

jclee

Gravel can house large amounts of beneficial bacteria.

The cheapest way I can think of to get circulation going in a fishless tank for a little while would be to buy two air pumps (perhaps on ebay or some other reduced-price location) and a few feet of airline tubing. Jam chopstick ends in the end of the tubing in lieu of an airstone. (It doesn't have to last long, from the sound of things.) For what you are describing, I would do that and count on gravel and other surfaces in the tank (plants, decor, driftwood, etc.) to form beneficial bacteria colonies.

Red wag platy

Can i put the liquid bacteria in there and just leave it so the bacteria can colonize,or do i need to put fish food in the tank so it can produce the waste? What i'm doing is testing which product is more effective by measuring the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates everyday for 2 weeks. I'm planning on just having an empty tank filled with water that has a filter pump and some gravel

riddik1

you would need to have some kind of ammonia source. if you dont want to use pure ammonia you could use fish food or a shrimp(from the grocery store) . i would suggest you use pure ammonia so that you get consistent results. you can find it at home depot, walmart, etc...

Red wag platy

Thanks!!! I've now changed my mind so instead of using 3 ten gallon tanks, I'm going to use three 5 gallon buckets with an air pump. What do you think I should do about the evaporation? I was thinking of topping it off with distilled water every day, however I don't if that would affect the results or not. I could use a lid, but i don't know what type. Also, how often should I add the ammonia and how much?

riddik1

just cover the buckets with anything leaving a little room for airflow. i wouldnt use distilled water, i would conditioned tap water. as for the ammonia, make sure it is pure, without any colorants, surfactants or perfume( usually the no-name stuff)get a dropper and add the ammonia to the buckets until you reach 5ppm (counting the drops) add the same ammount of ammonia everyday until the buckets are cycled. make sure to test BEFORE you add more ammonia everyday. i am also not sure if this will work with TSS. you would think it would but i dont know. have fun!

JRDroid

I would definitely use pure ammonia for a science experiment. Using food or shrimp introduces way too many variables. You could cover them with saran wrap or foil to keep it cheap. And as long as you bring the total volume in each bucket back up to identical levels each time you add water, it won't effect your results. Also, for these bacterial suppliments, I would only bring the ammonia up to 2 parts per million. If I recall correctly Tetra SafeStart specifically states that it can not be used in water with 4 PPM ammonia or higher.

riddik1

thanx droid!!! i dont know about tss... and i agree about ammonia levels too. shouldnt matter where you start as long as you end up with a complete cycle.

Red wag platy

Thanks!!! You Guys are a load of help. TSS says I should add the whole bottle to the water. Is that neccessary? I was thinking of distilled water because water from the tap could increase the hardness of the water considering evaporation leaves all the salts behind.

pepetj

You don't need any device for water circulation. And the bacteria you need is already available for free in the air we breathe.

A planted tank with ""still water", as long as you provide the right temperature and lighting, will cycle if a source of ammonia is present. The temperature gradient through the water column, as well as the activity of life from the plants and all the microscopic organisms create a quite slow but yet effective water circulation.

As suggested, ammonia solution without surfactants seems the best and safe way to go, in order to avoid adding too little or too much.

I keep a 20gal planted tank in my office's internal patio, its water is incredibly clear, it receives direct sunlight for around 8 to 10 hours a day. It has no electrical/mechanical accessory in it. When I have consecutive sunny days a lot of moss is produced which I use it to feed some vegetarian fish as well as provide a safe heaven for small fry (inverts and fish) in other tanks.

To measure the whole thing cycling, you would just need a liquid test kit for Freshwater that measures ammonia, nitrite and nitrite. Seachem has a pretty good and fairly priced ammonia (both free and total) test and a nitrite/nitrate test. I suggest this brand since both come with a plastic tray where you can make up to six measurements at the time and uses very little reagent quantitiy.

During the Ammonia Spike (first phase of the cycle) I feed once a day. During the Nitrite Spike I feed half the amount used in the previous one until Nitrates are present.

Once I get the reading of nitrites in zero, I perform a huge water change prior to introducing new fish.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

riddik1

im really sorry but i think i should respectfully disagree with pepetj. from my understanding pepetj is getting water circulation with heat, microbiological life and the plants themselves. you will not have any of these so i think circulation will be required. maybe set up a 4th bucket with no circulation and see what happens because i have been wrong before ya know!

JRDroid

The sort of tank he is describing is commonly called the walstad method IIRC. They are very efficient and stable, but also beyond the scope of the proposed experiment.