flyin-lowe

Today is four weeks since I added 6 tetras to my grandmothers 75 g tank. It also has 1 amazon sword, 2 bunches of hornwort, and 2 small anubias. She did not want it to sit empty and wanted a fish in cycle. ( I know I know). I have been doing water changes whenever the ammonia reaches about .50 PPM. I still have not had any positive test for nitrites. I told her initially that it should take 6-8 weeks but without any nitrites yet I have a feeling it might be a while still. Is the 6 small tetras ( a little bigger then a quarter) not enough bioload to get the cycle going? I don't think I have enough live plants to be eating up the nitrites. The nitrates are still showing around 5ppm. I did not plan on using TSS but I might end up ordering a bottle. A friend of mine told me that he cycles his new tanks by taking the filter media out of an established tank and letting the dirty water drain into a large cup and he dumps that into a tank and it cycles. I doubted him on this but I was looking on you tube and there are videos on there showing a sponge filter being squeezed into a cup and this gentleman states that how he cycles all his tanks. Would there be enough bacteria in a cup of "dirty" water from an established filter to cycle a tank?
Any other advice?
Thanks

10gallonmadness

Due to the water changes, you keep restarting your cycle. You need to use a product like ammo-lock. Ammo-lock will neutralize ammonia to fish but keep it so nitrites can eat it. neon tetra's are not the best choice for cycling, which no fish are, some fish are just more hardy.

The water in an established tank is contains very little good bacteria. The gravel or filter media is something that will speed up your cycle.

I find it wierd that you have no nitrites. Ammonia is generally what live plants will eat, even when an abundance of nitrates are present.

TSS has generally 50/50 chance of working from what I've heard on the forum. Always have a backup cycling method present.

One last thing, I would take the plants out. They MIGHT be the nitrite problem.

Lucy

Water changes might prolong a cycle because you're removing the ammonia the bacteria needs.
However, doing water changes would not cause your cycle to keep restarting, imo.
Persoanlly, I wouldn't depend on a product without the benefit of water changes also.

What test kit are you using? How often are you testing? Any nitrate reading?

flyin-lowe

API master test kit. Nitrates have always read around five, but this is about what I get out of the tap. I have had several people in other posts and on other forums indicate that water changes will not affect the cycle. I have been told that 1. Fish in the tank will began producing ammonia back into the new water immediately and 2. Taking out between 20%-40% there is still enough ammonia in the water to not affect things. I live away from my grandmother who has the tank so I am only able to test the water a couple times a week not every day. When I test it and the ammonia is close to .50% I do a water change for the sake of the fish. The tetras are 4 black skirts (not neons) and two whites.

Any one else have opinions on the plants? I have never heard of them hurting the cycle process and most think I have to few too affect it either way.

10gallonmadness

If you have Nitrates from your tap then your not in the Nitrate stage of your cycle. Your still in the Ammonia stage.

flyin-lowe

I kinda figured I was still in the ammonia stage as I have never seen any nitrites and the nitrates are about the same as the tap water. My question was what should I do at this point to avoid a cycle that takes forever to get going. More bio load (a few more fish) or just wait it out. Somebody on here said generally the nitrite phase takes twice as long as the ammonia phase. If that holds true I would have another two months for nitrites to turn into nitrates. That's assuming I get nitrites soon.

Elvishswimmer

It could possibly be from having the ammonia levels so low. But also having low ammonia levels are safe for the fish. Which is where the problem comes in. I don't think that more of a bioload would be recommended for fish safety.

Possibly rehomeing the fish and then having a more aggressive ammonia addition (either through the shrimp or pure ammonia method) to get the ammonia up and give the bacteria enough food to grow. You have to remember that nitrogen oxidizing bacteria are fairly slow growing, and it is hard to grow at an exponential rate when you have to compete for the food. These combined in your situation = REALLY SLOW.
If you do a fishless method, you could probably go through it faster, and then be able to fill the tank with all the fishes you want!

or maybe obtaining some TSS and then throwing more fish in there.

Good Luck!

pepetj

My two cents:

Given the circumstances... I would get your grandma the required quantity of Tetra Safe Start to cycle her 75gal as well as the fish she wants. Make sure you follow the instructions as for what to add first and in what time frame to do it. I've never used TSS but given the good reports in this (and other) forum(s) I believe is the best way to solve this for the sake of her fish and also for yours.

As for using the "dirt" water squeezed out of a seeded sponge... sure, you might get some bacteria that way, but how many would survive the lapse of time out of their original environment (the seeded sponge, where they receive oxygen) to your Grandma's tank filter media? Consider that at least some of the bacteria that makes it alive to your Grandma filter will be lost in the water column and some eventually would make it and attach to surface it can then colonize. If you could monitor that tank closely I would give it a try but I honestly don't think it would suffice. And that is without considering the risks of introducing pathogenic agents from the source tank.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

aquarist48

Hello FlyinLowe. Hang in there! Your water changes will not stop your tank from cycling but it may slow it down a bit. Normally I don't recommend water changes during cycling but since there are fish involved I think you are doing the right thing to keep the fish alive. It will get easier so don't give up.

I have previously read that people have squeezed their established bio sponges in a new tank to cycle and they had good luck. I don't think they got an instant cycle but the cycling time was shortened by doing so.

I think what you're doing for your grandmother is great! Keep us posted.
Ken

flyin-lowe

I did a water test today and the ammonia was down a little (around .25 but not up to .50). The nitrates were also up a little at about 10 today. First time they have been above 5. The nitrites were still at zero. If the plants are somehow consuming the nitrites would it be possible for me to see an increase in nitrates and never have any nitrites? Or can the nitrates only come from existing nitrites? I will test it again in a few days.

Jaysee

The plants wll consume nitrATES, not nitrites. Correct - nitrates come from nitrites (and tap water sometimes). Nitrates are the end result of the ntrogen cycle.

If you haven't seen nitrites, you're still at the beginning of the cycle.

flyin-lowe

Well I broke down today and ended up with some TSS. I was against it in the beginning but the more I have read the more I figured why not. My grandmother was getting a little anxious and the 6 tetras that were in the 75 were not producing enough waste to get the cycle going fast enough. Instead of waiting another 2 months I added the TSS this afternoon. She went and got her four more fish also so she is excited. This will also make a nice test for when I set my new 120g up next month.

I now have to look and see if the LFS sold her fish that will work with each other. I sent her to get the TSS and she came back with it plus 1 dwarf gourami, 2 mickey mouse neon moons, and a bronze cory. So far everything seems compatible. From what I have read I should get a couple more of the cory's as they don't to the best alone. Some say platys/moons should be in three's. She has had 4 black skirt and 2 white skirt tetras in for 5 weeks now. They told her these would be able to handle the TSS and the next 7-10 days. Should I wait until next week after the TSS works to get some more corries or should I get some now to keep him happy. Also can I add some different types or should I get two more bronze cories?