Pedro111

Hello,

After a 10-year pause, I've recently decided to pick up the wonderful hobby of freshwater fishkeeping again. I have to say, even though I was but a teenager when I was last breeding Trichogasters, I'd forgotten just how complicated this hobby could get at times.

I've opted for a nice 275L tank (about 72 gallons), and intend to keep about 5 or 6 Mikregeophagus ramirezi, and possibly a couple of small algae eaters. I realise that's a pretty low population density for a tank that size, but (1) I like giving them space to do their own thing and (2) I do a fair amount of travelling for work (usuallly for a week or so at a time), so a low population density should prevent things from spiralling out of control too rapidly.

Tank was delivered about 8 days ago. Added plants a day after installing all the necessary equipment and bits and pieces (water treated with chlorine remover, gravel, heater, Eheim Ecco Pro filter). Mostly planted with java fern, java moss, Cabomba, some grasses, and a few broad-leaved plants growing on bits of driftwood (of uncertain genus).

I've been testing pH, NH3, NO2- and NO3- on a daily basis since the starts. The nitrogen cycle test results are confusing me somewhat, and I'm thinking this may be due to the added complications of using a planted tank. Anyway, I'd be very interested to get people's expert feedback in terms of what's going on with my nitrogen cycle:

Day 1 (day of adding the first plants)
pH 7.2
NH3 0.25
NO2- 0.0
NO3- 5.0
-> After tests: added some (previously soaked) driftwood

Day 2
pH 6.8
NH3 0.12
NO2- 0.25 [this suggests some early stage 1 cycling to me - seems very early, though]
NO3- 7.0 [likewise, seems early for nitrates to be going up]

Day 3
pH 6.7
NH3 0.10
NO2- 0.25
NO3- 7.0
Fe 0.07
-> After tests: added some iron supplement tablets
-> Added some liquid iron fertiliser
-> Added some fish food to help out with cycling [was this a bad idea in a planted tank?]

Day 4
pH 6.7
NH3 0.25
NO2- 0.25
NO3- 8.0
CO2 16.0
-> Added some additional plants

Day 5
NH3 0.20
NO2- 0.12
-> After tests: added some more fish food

Day 6
pH 7.0
NH3 0.20
NO2- 0.20
NO3- 8.0
Fe 0.2

Day 7 (today)
NH3 0.20
NO2- 0.30
NO3- 8.0

Unfortunately, some of my Cabomba decided to day during the course of today. It pretty much disintegrated, for no apparent reason. Because there were bits of it all over the place, I decided to do a small (<10%) water change to suck up most of the bits with a gravel cleaner.

So, after an initial modest rise in nitrite and nitrate, and apart from some very modest rises in ammonia and nitrite after adding some fish food / some plants dying, everything seems to be remarkably stable at pretty low (but non-zero) levels. Should I sit it out patiently, or is nothing much going to change in the planted set-up?

Thank you in advance.

eiginh

Try adding more food to raise your ammonia more than 1 PPM and see if it converts to nitrite with a few hours. Plants usually help with cycling as they consume nitrates. How many watts does your tank have? What kind of fertilizers are you using? I can't find a reason why your cabomba has melted unless you got a non aquatic plant. That's a fast rate for cycling a tank.

Pedro111

Thanks very much for your quick response, eiginh.
I'm a bit embarrassed to admit it, but your reply made me realise that I've made a significant mistake.. I trusted the fish shop's recommendation of a lighting fixture, which turns out to be 25W only (I know, I know, I should have checked..).
No wonder my Cabomba died! It's surprising the other plants are still alive.
Will go and buy some extra lighting today - though I am worried about overheating, as I'm already struggling to keep the temperature below 31C.

Back to the nitrogen cycle, then. Added more fish food last night. This morning, both ammonia and nitrite were down a little bit (to almost imperceptible levels). I don't seem to be able to get any spikes in the concentration of either molecule. Maybe I'm not stressing the system enough, but I'm a bit reluctant to dump a whole load of fish food in there, especially with some bits of rotting Cabomba still floating about.

Should I try adding some fish? Problem is, I don't really want any other fish in there than rams, and I'd be foolish to put them in now.

eiginh

No, I don't suggest adding more fish during your cycling process at the moment. Add raw shrimp in there to add ammonia but make sure to wrap it with a stocking or some sort of mesh so the shrimp particles won't be all over your tank. Try taking out all the cambomba particles as it will add extra phosphates and lead to an algae bloom What the heck? Your LFS sold you plants that need high light with only .34 WPG of a lighting fixture? I assume that he sold you Flourescent lights? If you can, try going to a hardware store and buy CF lights for a garden, they're usually cheaper than aquarium fixture it does need a splash guard though but if you have a glass top it'll be fine.

Anyways I hope someone else post additional information for cycling your tank. On the first day you should be really be at X, 0, 0 assuming your tap water contains some ammonia (x-amount of ammonia)

aquarist48

Hello Pedro and Welcome to Fish Lore. I hope you enjoy the site!
Ken

Pedro111

Thanks Ken!

Eiginh, thanks again for the feedback. I've replaced the 25W bulb and fixture with 4x39W (and a fan).
I've also added some shrimp in a stocking... hopefully I'll get a bit of an ammonia spike soon. Thus far, nitrite and ammonia have both been hovering just above undetectable levels. There's definitely some there, but it isn't much. I've tested my tap water, and nitrites are zero. So some sort of limited nitrite production appears to be taking place.

peacemaker92

WELCOME TO FISHLORE, Pedro!

Congrats on getting into this hobby again. Great and addictive hobby I can say Hope everything goes well and also hope to see pics up when you're tank is ready.

Pedro111

Many thanks, Peacemaker!

Well, after a three day business trip, I came back to find both ammonia and nitrite at zero, for the first time since setting up the tank. Nitrate is very low, at about 5ppm. Looks like the plants are keeping it under control nicely. This is all despite shrimps/fish food having been added.

I am thinking of adding the first few fish.

jprime84

I read an article about plants as biological filtration. It mentioned that plants will consume nitrogen from ammonium NH3+ much faster than from nitrate. Since your pH has been at 7 or below, you probably have a larger quantity of ammonium than ammonia.

I agree with the advice of deliberately creating an ammonia spike and observing the results. It sounds like the reason for your low but non zero numbers could be because your plants are consuming a large portion of you NH3 and not leaving very much for your nitrifying bacteria, and therefore causing the colonies to not grow very quickly.

As far as your nitrate readings, have you tried testing the tap water? Perhaps your tap water already has some nitrates in it.