Another Seachem Stability Thread

[FishMagnet]

After looking through the threads I have yet to find difinitive evidence as to wether or not it actually works as a magic cycler.

I've used it in the past though never to cycle a new tank. I do believe it works.

Anyone read this article? http://www.petfish.net/forum/index.php?topic=73906.0

Heh, if not I suppose you have now.

What do you think?

Heres my take on the whole thing. I see many people say that products like this basically displace the "good" bacteria by starving them. But that just doesn't make sense to me. If you continue to add waste, from fish, food, pure ammonia whatever, then the "good" and the bottled will both flourish. Correct? Why would one starve out the other? Perhaps if you mega-dosed your betta bowl for a month there by never giving anything else a chance to grow.
But even then it makes no sense to me that "good" would never grow.
And lets say a company that produces a product containing land based bacteria...as that dies off, the "good" would take its place.

I'm thinking the problem more likely is overstocking after cycling, which in turn leads to bad publicity for products like these.

So I've cast my line. Any takers?

[aquarist48]

Personally the only way I will ever cycle another tank is by "seeding".

[kimb]

Cycling is a personal preference, I have used pure ammonia successfully, and seeded a tank successfully. If it works for you...use it. My experience with a so called cycle booster....didn't. I have read both positive and negative results with Stability. Not an option for me as it is not available where I live!

[Lucy]

Here's my opinion on it. You start a brand new aquarium. It has zip bacteria..0, none.
You add fish and a bacterial additive. That bacterial additive uses the ammonia that would allow the natural bacteria to grow.

Originally Posted by FishMagnet

And lets say a company that produces a product containing land based bacteria...as that dies off, the "good" would take its place.

Ok, so you stop using that product or it dies off, that's when bacteria can begin to grow on it's own because it's not competeing with any bottled bacteria. Where did that get you?
You spent money and delayed the cycle.

[kimb]

Originally Posted by Lucy

Here's my opinion on it. You start a brand new aquarium. It has zip bacteria..0, none.
You add fish and a bacterial additive. That bacterial additive uses the ammonia that would allow the natural bacteria to grow.

Ok, so you stop using that product or it dies off, that's when bacteria can begin to grow on it's own because it's not competeing with any bottled bacteria. Where did that get you?
You spent money and delayed the cycle.

And....then you have a tank with 0 bacteria and fish in your tank. IMO, you spent the money, delayed the cycle, and now face days of water changes that you wouldn't have had if you had cycled without fish using ammonia, shrimp etc, plus potentially sick and or dead fish. Good way of explaining it Lucy

[FishMagnet]

Originally Posted by Lucy

Here's my opinion on it. You start a brand new aquarium. It has zip bacteria..0, none.
You add fish and a bacterial additive. That bacterial additive uses the ammonia that would allow the natural bacteria to grow.

Ok, so you stop using that product or it dies off, that's when bacteria can begin to grow on it's own because it's not competeing with any bottled bacteria. Where did that get you?
You spent money and delayed the cycle.

This is what I really want to discuss. In the beginning yes it would have 0 bacteria. If you add -insert product- you now have a tank with only that bacteria. BUT would not the naturally occuring bacteria also begin to grow and thrive provided there was enough food? ie dead shrimp, fish, whatever.
Of course the naturally occuring bacteria will have to compete, but what does it really matter if you have after one week say 10% natural and 90% bottled.
Week 2 30/70, week 3 50/50, and so on until bottled is completely replaced.
Its all processing ammonia/nitrite/nitrate the same.

Or does it just not work this way? Seems like it would to me.

[Shawnie]

Originally Posted by FishMagnet

After looking through the threads I have yet to find difinitive evidence as to wether or not it actually works as a magic cycler.

I've used it in the past though never to cycle a new tank. I do believe it works.

Anyone read this article? http://www.petfish.net/forum/index.php?topic=73906.0

Heh, if not I suppose you have now.

What do you think?

Heres my take on the whole thing. I see many people say that products like this basically displace the "good" bacteria by starving them. But that just doesn't make sense to me. If you continue to add waste, from fish, food, pure ammonia whatever, then the "good" and the bottled will both flourish. Correct? Why would one starve out the other? Perhaps if you mega-dosed your betta bowl for a month there by never giving anything else a chance to grow.
But even then it makes no sense to me that "good" would never grow.
And lets say a company that produces a product containing land based bacteria...as that dies off, the "good" would take its place.

I'm thinking the problem more likely is overstocking after cycling, which in turn leads to bad publicity for products like these.

So I've cast my line. Any takers?

Fist off id like to say on that link you shared, the reply from the "tech support" speaks ALLOT about all kinds forums and their negativity on the product..I highly doubt anyone from seachem is surfing the net checking out forums and making comments like that...that doesnt sound like a reply email from any company to me...I have gotten emails from seachem for questions ive asked on prime but it was more professional and it deffinately explained in detail without condoning or cutting down the internet and its negativity for the product LOL

and my take on stability is this...."contains a synergistic blend of aerobic, anaerobic, and facultative bacteria" which is whats in stablity and it works awesome if you add it for the life of the tank...its seachem's compatibility to the product by hagen called "cycle"...the bacteria is selfsustaining if you add it forever...if you stop, the bacteria cannot survive on its own as it needs the boost of the facultative bacteria source in the product....

ive had some friends swear by it tho as others have im sure....but again, they have used it like we all use stress coat(weekly with water changes ) so they say they have no issues....everyone has a preference and if it works and continues to work for you, thats awesome..because bottom line is a healthy,cycled, happy fish tank

[FishMagnet]

Shawnie,
I also thought the reply was a bit "fishy". Maybe I could email Seachem and quote that response to see if it was valid.

Originally Posted by Shawnie

and my take on stability is this...."contains a synergistic blend of aerobic, anaerobic, and facultative bacteria" which is whats in stablity and it works awesome if you add it for the life of the tank...its seachem's compatibility to the product by hagen called "cycle"...the bacteria is selfsustaining if you add it forever...if you stop, the bacteria cannot survive on its own as it needs the boost of the facultative bacteria source in the product....

ive had some friends swear by it tho as others have im sure....but again, they have used it like we all use stress coat(weekly with water changes ) so they say they have no issues....everyone has a preference and if it works and continues to work for you, thats awesome..because bottom line is a healthy,cycled, happy fish tank

Your right on to my point. Even if its not self sustaining...does it matter? As they die off shouldn't the naturally occuring bacteria take their place?
Or do they die off too quickly for them to?
Could be why some like the Seachem product only have you using it for 7 days. Or when doing water changes/adding fish/etc. But they do not tell you to use for the life of the aquarium.

[Lucy]

Originally Posted by FishMagnet

This is what I really want to discuss. In the beginning yes it would have 0 bacteria. If you add -insert product- you now have a tank with only that bacteria. BUT would not the naturally occuring bacteria also begin to grow and thrive provided there was enough food? ie dead shrimp, fish, whatever.
Of course the naturally occuring bacteria will have to compete, but what does it really matter if you have after one week say 10% natural and 90% bottled.
Week 2 30/70, week 3 50/50, and so on until bottled is completely replaced.
Its all processing ammonia/nitrite/nitrate the same.

Or does it just not work this way? Seems like it would to me.

This is all just my opinion, mind you, but if you add the bacterial additive it's processing the ammonia so there's no ammonia for the benefical bacteria to get a foot hold.
When you first begin to cycle a tank (with no additive) it can take weeks for the bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite to develop then a few more weeks before you see the bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate.

Now, assuming you've begun the cycle with a non aquatic bacteria and you slowly ween your tank off of it that might avoid a total cycle crash.
Not sure, but that kinda makes sense.

Originally Posted by FishMagnet

Or when doing water changes/adding fish/etc.

You do water changes for the life of your tank.
For them to repeat that would be redundant.

[FishMagnet]

Originally Posted by Lucy

Now, assuming you've begun the cycle with a non aquatic bacteria and you slowly ween your tank off of it that might avoid a total cycle crash.
Not sure, but that kinda makes sense.

Thats exactly what I'm trying to get at. I think you made my case for me. Or put it into the right words for me. Jumpstarting the process with an additive and slowly weening your tank off it. If the stuff works the way they say, you would always have pretty ideal parameters from day one...well enough to keep fish...and provided you slowly weened your tank off it, you would never see a dramatic swing in your water quality. Hence, you could keep fish from day one like they say. I think.

[FishMagnet]

Originally Posted by Lucy

You do water changes for the life of your tank.
For them to repeat that would be redundant.

True true.

But here...I quote from the label.
"For optimum biofilter performance use one capful.......once a month or with each water change and whenever introducing new fish or whenever medicating an aquarium."

I'm assuming they are suggesting this a supplement. As you know, you add some new fish to an existing system and the bioload just increased which will lead to a small cycle. So, add the product when adding the fish and it helps to neutralize the increased load until your natural filtration can catch up.

Thats how I read it anyhow.
Maybe I'm just giving them too much credit. Iwould like to believe that a company like Seachem in particular wouldn't sell misleading, and worthless products.

[Lucy]

With a little patience, you can cycle fish less with ammonia or a peice of raw shrimp in the same amount of time and less money.

[Shawnie]

Originally Posted by FishMagnet

True true.

But here...I quote from the label.
"For optimum biofilter performance use one capful.......once a month or with each water change and whenever introducing new fish or whenever medicating an aquarium."

I'm assuming they are suggesting this a supplement. As you know, you add some new fish to an existing system and the bioload just increased which will lead to a small cycle. So, add the product when adding the fish and it helps to neutralize the increased load until your natural filtration can catch up.

.

that quote is why you SHOULDNT use it IMO...a strong stable tank does NOT need any additives to be able to handle a new fish or two...the bacteria colony, if accomplished with proper cycling, should be able to deal with more bioload if added slowly (meaning 2-4 inches of fish a week then wait a week)

[FishMagnet]

Lucy,
Again true.
I just like the idea of these products. Kind of. I think they are misleading, especially to someone new to it all.

I've never cycled a tank with them, though I am trying it on a 5gal observation tank, but I have used it when a system has gotten outta wack and it seems to help.

Originally Posted by Shawnie

that quote is why you SHOULDNT use it IMO...a strong stable tank does NOT need any additives to be able to handle a new fish or two...the bacteria colony, if accomplished with proper cycling, should be able to deal with more bioload if added slowly (meaning 2-4 inches of fish a week then wait a week)

You've got me there Shawnie.

[Shawnie]

Originally Posted by FishMagnet

You've got me there Shawnie.

not trying to get you by any means just explaining why I feel they arent worth your money or time we all learn daily and thats the amazing part about fishlore

[FishMagnet]

Again a "but"

But, isn't that one of the selling points of these products? So that you CAN add 12 fish instead of the 2, and supposedly not over-burden your filters.

[Shawnie]

yes but it doesnt work so you loose fish and go back to the store then they sell you some crap because they dont blame the product you put in, they blame it on a sickness...or ammonia is too high so poof another product for that or pH is all messed up poof another product for that...see the cycle? LOL

[FishMagnet]

Ha! So true.