Devon

So I went into my LFS today for some Tetra Safe Start, since when I ask for Bio-Spira I get only blank stares. They had no idea what the Safe Start was either (they thought I meant the water conditioner).
Now, I NEVER believe anything I hear at the LFS, even the one I was at (which is generally much, much better than any others I have been to). But this guy totally blew me away. He said, "You know, you can use septic tank treatment to cycle your tank, it's the same thing."

... Is he serious!? I mean, I would not ever want to put something that can disintegrate solids in a fish tank anyway, but really, I have to know... is this guy smoking something? LOL

Martinismommy

Maybe he has been breathing fumes from the septic tank lol...Good lord!

Butterfly

I hope he doesn't tell that to somebody who doesn't know better!
Carol

Devon

He claims that the treatment they use is "just bacteria" and it's basically the same thing as Cycle. I don't know if this is true or not but it seems to be... highly unlikely. And the scary thing about that is the guy standing next to him (also an employee) was there nodding and agreeing with the guy!! Has the whole world gone mad? Or did someone at the LFS for once say something true?

Edit: Okay, so I finally found some stuff on Google... septic tank treatments often seem to contain additives and fragrances that I would NEVER put in an aquarium... but a lot of septic treatment manufacturers seem to also produce "Cycle"-like products, like this company UltraClear that makes septic tank treatment as well as SW & FW aquarium treatments to build up colonies of beneficial bacteria.
So the answer is... YES, the guy at the LFS is high, but he's not completely wrong... just mostly.

sirdarksol

If you found a septic treatment product that was solely bacteria (no scents, etc...), it would work, because septic treatment is based on nitrifying bacteria.
Of course, the amount you'd get in a septic tank treatment pack would likely be enough to cycle a large pond.

Devon

To his credit, he DID say that you will buy a couple gallons of product and only use a few drops to cycle the average tank... I cracked a comment about the leftovers being a fine back-up store if you had a bad case of the MTS... but none of them got that joke.

To reiterate though: septic tank treatments, while similar to cycling products, are generally NOT for fish tanks! Best to err on the side of caution, and once again: never fully trust what the people at your LFS tell you.

MissMTS

Wow. That is pretty nuts that they would suggest that. Even if you found one that could in theory work, I would be to scared to try it. I don't know where some people get their ideas....

David C

I wish I knew more about bacteria, if they were the same that would save a fortune... septic treatment is like $6 a package compared to the $40 I spent for enough safestart to cycle my 55gal. I'm not gonna try it though, I'll let someone else be the guinea pig

sirdarksol

They may be the same thing.

Here's the question: Is septic treatment meant to work forever, or is it something that needs to be added weekly, monthly, bi-monthly, etc...?

KyWildFish

The stuff I have used for treating a septic system doesnt have bacteria in it. Most all septic system treatments only have enzymes (compounds that break down other organic materials) that are refined from bacteria. Unless in other parts of the world they sell some culture (which would need to be refridgerated) then I would say this isnt the best way to cycle.

sirdarksol

Good to know.
It wouldn't need to be refrigerated, though. See the new info on Tetra SafeStart, which is new, tricked-out version of BioSpira. It has a non-refrigerated shelf-life.
I have seen septic treatments that are live bacteria (they're for sale at the local Menards). I haven't, however, really paid attention to them, as I don't have a septic system. My guess is that they are the same types of bacteria that are sold in the majority of the "cycle" products, which are a terrestrial nitrifying bacteria. They work for a bit, but then they die off, because they can't survive indefinitely in an aquatic environment. This type of thing would work in a septic system, because a bit of lag in addition of the next treatment won't kill anything.

KyWildFish

I wonder what they have put in the new "tricked out" version of BioSpira to keep the culture alive. Almost all cultures need different conditions to stay alive but there are some simple things everything needs to survive. The first is food the second is moisture. I am sure that the BioSpira has plenty of moisture, but wonder if they have some kind of time released food in there. Any clues on the shelf life of the new stuff?

Also many products that claim to have an "active culture" should almost all have a short shelf life. The only exception to this would be a spore former, which is a whole different microbiology lesson.

sirdarksol

I'm not sure what the shelf life is, but they "solved" the survivability problem, in part, by concentrating the bacteria really tightly. As the bacteria die, they release ammonia, which feeds the surviving colony. Basically, death occurs in an inverted geometric pattern. As more bacteria die, the remaining can survive that much longer. I wouldn't doubt that they found a slow-release ammonia mix, too, to keep the stuff alive as long as possible.

The other products do seem to be spore-form bacteria. They're kept packed in something to keep them dry (usually sawdust or wheat chaff).
There's also a company that claims to have created a version of the aquatic nitrifiers that can go into spore form. I have my doubts about this, mostly because the company dances around a lot of the really big questions, and has a pretty arcane setup procedure.