CorysRock

Hi All

I dont understand whats happening in my tank.

First of all I tested the water parameters for my main tank...everything was good
temp 25
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 10-20
pH 7.3

I then tested my 2nd tank and the ammonia was off the charts, the water parameters were
temp 23
ammonia 10.0 (thats right 10.0)
nitrite 0
nitrate 10-20
pH 7

My 2nd tank is 105lts, has a sand substrate, 2 amazon swords, 1 crypt, and 1 other small plant. The tank has been up and running for over 12 weeks (and have never had an ammonia prob) The occupants are 5 peppered corys, 4 julii corys, 3 albino corys and 3 bronze corys.

The fish all look fine and behaving normally and eating, I'm no expert on fish stuff but I would have thought that ammonia that high would have killed the fish by now.

Now the strange thing is I retested the main tank and ammonia was 0, retested the 2nd tank and ammonia was still 10.0.

So I did a 50% water change just to be safe and retested again but the ammonia had only come down a wee bit so I did another water change of about 35% and retested and it had only come down to about 5ppm.

I am so confused, I have tested and retested about 6 times now and there is not much change in the ammonia reading but the fish seem fine.

It is the same ammonia test kit Ive been using for the past 8-9 weeks.

Can somebody please shed some light on this for me its driving me crazy

cheers

Shawnie

Hi cory...could it be over feeding?? or leftover uneaten food? and what kind of test kit are you using? I know amonia readings are totally frustrating...it took me over a month to cycle mine

CorysRock

Hi Shawnie

I dont think its from over feeding I feed 2 small hikari tropical sinking wafers in the a.m and maybe some peas or bloodworms or 1 larger tetramin tropical tablet - the rich mix, in the p.m, and they usually dont leave any behind.

The test kit is only a aquasonic (probably not the best) At first i thought it might be a faulty kit or gone off or something like that but it says the other tank is good.

Thanks, cheers

Shawnie

very weird for sure...its almost like its starting a mini cycle...api master liquid test kit is the best out there if you can get one...im baffled that you have amonia and nitrates but no nitrites..keep an eye on it and continue doing water changes daily....its frustrating I know...took me weeks grrrr but its worth it in the long run.....

CorysRock

Thanks Shawnie

I'll keep on top of the water changes and do one daily, and I'll try and get a better test kit asap, funds are a bit tight at the moment but as soon as i can i will get a better one.

Yeah i dont understand the no nitrites either...it just makes no sense to me

calinb

Well, keep in mind that if the ammonia was originally 10, a 50% water change will only bring it down to 5! It was probably higher than 10 originally--as you said "off the charts."

When toxicity levels climb this high, partial water changes don't really cut it. Partial water changes only work, given non-toxic water and you can remove as much toxins as were created during a given change interval. Toxic water requires more drastic measures like water changes close to 100% or, in an emergency, temporary detoxifying binders like Prime and Ammo Lock, etc.

I'm pleased to hear your fish toughed it out, however.

-Cal

steveangela1

I would think though that a 100percent water change would be too stressful on the fish, that using the prime or ammo lock would be the answer and the 25-50percent changes at the most daily to bring the ammonia down is the idea?

Shawnie

I agree...100% is too much..if anything, do a 50% twice a day ....but with mine, the 50% a day was good....it took me weeks, (because thats how long it took me to get bio-spira) of everyday at least 50% changes to get cycled....patience is the key, as well as many many water changes...hope things are still going well cory!

calinb

Yes--a binding agent may be the safest approach in moderate cases, but keep in mind a normal dose of Prime "only" binds 0.8 ppm of ammonia. Even the "emergency" dose to remove nitrites, as directed on the container, is only 5 times that 0.8 ppm or 4 ppm. Water above 4 ppm would still be toxic--even if you risked the full emergency nitrite dose.

Also, the "for nitrites" note implies to me that such high doses should not be used, if only ammonia is high and nitrites are low. It may leave too much nitrite binding agent unbound. I dunno.

Finally, if the water parameters are well matched (mostly pH and temperature) I doubt a water change approaching 100% (< 100% allows fish to remain in the tank during the change, which is stress reducing) would be more harmful than doing 50% water changes for days to get the toxicity level down.

In an emergency, you just have to "pick your poison" for your fish and trade off toxins vs. pH or temperature shock or, to a lessor degree, other water parameter shock but do the arithmetic--partial water changes simply don't turn highly toxic water to safe water quickly and I wanted to make this point. Often a mixed approach is the best solution (binding agent + partial changes) but keep in mind binding agents have limitations too and I'm particularly puzzled by the emergency use for nitrites note on Prime, implying that such high doses would not be appropriate for ammonia only.

BTW, I had a water quality "false alarm" soon after I got my chocolate gouramis and I did nearly a 100% change. CGs are known to be one of the most water quality sensitive fish commonly available and they are used as "canaries" by discus keepers to warn of impending water quality issues, but I matched the temperature, pH, KH, and GH very closely and no fish suffered. You see, I remember my basic chemistry pretty well and I'm also good at risk management, but I didn't know CGs. Their color goes pale at night when they sleep. There was nothing wrong with the water when I freaked and changed it.

-Cal

steveangela1

I am so used to my nitrites/ammonia never going above 1.0ppm I don't have to deal w/ that issue.. in fact knock on wood its been a long time since I have had any issue w/ that my fish are used to -0- ammonia and -0- nitrite all the time now... I do 2 water changes in all tanks every week also...

I was also blessed though w/ a husband w/ a degree in enviromental science and wildlife management w/ a minor in chem.. when i mentioned the nitrogen cycle to him during my early fish keeping days... I got a liminology book thrown my way (the study of water).... water change water change water change.. but he always preaches never do a large amount... I check the chem w/ the api set every other day...

the chem I use for nitrite/ammonia elevation I only use one set dose... and only one dose and that is the same chem i use for chorine removal, its a all in one chem. so I am not all that familar w/ the high doses of the other chems and I am not a fan of putting high doses of chems in a tank...

calinb

Here's a method that has the effect of reducing toxins a bit more gradually, but still nearly completely. It uses a method of multiple water changes on a partially full tank. Personally, in an emergency, I prefer to manage the risks by removing as much water as possible, while leaving just enough for the fish to swim, and replace it with well-matched water (but without the toxins). If there were still too many toxins remaining from the small amount of water that wasn't changed, I'd simply do the change a second time.

Others might be more comfortable with this method.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/nit...l/aa091901.htm

-Cal

aznemo

i may be waaaay off here, but i have a stable, cycled, 10 gallon tank that i've enjoyed for just about a year now. a few weeks ago i bought a bigger tank and while using the fishless cycle method of 'feeding' the empty tank, it also made sense to me to introduce the water from the cycled tank, normally dumped down the drain at weekly 10% waterchange time, into the new aquarium to inject the mix of bacteria we are constantly trying to balance into the 'new' water. this has accelerated my cycle dramatically in that instead of watching ammonia rise and waiting for nitrites then finally nitrates, all of these are already present and i'm just gently helping them find their balance. i mention this because if you have one tank reading stable and another reading troubled, whether or not you trust the quality of your test kits; maybe if you put some of the stable water into the unstable water you could help yourself out by introducing more of the beneficial bacteria into the troubled tank. it is my, admitedly limited understanding, that chemical water treatments will reduce the amount of troubling ions in your water immediately, but do not address the imbalance that allowed them to present themselves in the first place. perhaps if you threw in a few more of the beneficial bacteria you'd have a better time resolving this issue without having to spend dollars you dont have.
i've never seen this approach recommended anywhere, so it may be the most absurd thing you've ever heard, and feel free to completely disregard my ideas. it just kinda makes a little bit of sense to me and i thought i'd throw it out there.

calinb

It's probably not recommended because the common notion is that, once a tank is established, the bacteria reside on surfaces within the tank rather than free floating in the water. No doubt some bacteria are in the water and seeding with water may be better than nothing, but seeding with gravel, filter floss or other filter material, or plants from an existing tank seem to be the most common recommendations as they are believed to host a significant amount of bacteria. Some people keep an extra air powered sponge filter running in a mature tank just for this purpose too.

Seeding is all about getting as much good bacteria into the tank as possible. Though the growth is exponential, the time required to cultivate a sufficient store of bacteria depends on the size of the initial seed (and countless other factors, it would seem ).

-Cal