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Old June 5th, 2007  
Fish Keeper
 
Water Chemistry Help

Okay. I've had my 10gal tank up and running for almost 4 months now. I've posted about it before. It hasn't cycled yet!!

Here is the story:
Bought tank - LPS told me run it for 2 weeks. (Now know that was wrong). Did that, bought 3 platys. They all slowly died within 1 month or so, I'm guessing from ammonia poisoning. Before the last one died, I replaced the previous two with balloon mollys. Out of all five fish, 4 months later, I have one balloon molly left, Pinto. I have the API master test kit. I run a test every day. I do a big water change every week and little ones every couple of days. Every 2 weeks I put in this stuff I bought - keeps pH under control and makes the ammonia low enough for it to be okay for the fish until the tank cycles. I feed the fish (the only one left) a small enough of food that it's gone within 2-3 minutes every 2 days.

Here is the latest API results:
ammonia - 0.50
pH - 7.6
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 0


It obviously looks like it hasn't even STARTED the cycle yet. What is taking so long!? Should I try and cycle with some guppies or something? Or just let this one hopefully survive until the tank cycles two freakin' years from now? gar.
Amnagrla is offline  
Old June 5th, 2007  
Fish Keeper
 
Re: Water Chemistry Help

that sounds kinda odd to me. i can't say i know what's happening, but i'm sure someone else who knows more will help you out.

what's the pH controller that you're adding? a lot of them will cause problems. as long as you acclimate your fish, and your pH is stable, most fish will be fine without pH controllers
griffin is offline  
Old June 5th, 2007  
Fish Keeper
 
Re: Water Chemistry Help

Yeah I would stop adding the the "PH Controller" and probably settle down on the water changes a little. You have a ten gallon right ?? What kind of filtration do you have ?

Also keep an eye on the ammonia.. When it gets above .5 do a 25% water change. That should get it back to .5 or less.. If it does not do another 25% water change until it is .5 or less. You want to leave the .5 in there otherwise the Nitrites will never become established.

Need to know about that filter though..
Gargoyle is offline  
Old June 6th, 2007  
Fish Keeper
 
Re: Water Chemistry Help

I have a tetra whisper - 115-120 Volts 60 Hz. It came with my 10 gal tropical fish tank kit. It says it's good for a 10-20 gal tank. I'll stop putting in the pH controller. I only started with it because someone in here told me to get it to keep my ammonia down...

Pinto is so lonely!!
Amnagrla is offline  
Old June 6th, 2007  
Fish Master
 
Re: Water Chemistry Help

Could it be the test kit? Seems really odd.
armadillo is offline  
Old June 6th, 2007  
Fish Keeper
 
Re: Water Chemistry Help

I don't know... you would think only one part of the test kit would not be effective, not every test.

I just don't know what to do. My boyfriend even says I'm the most obsessed fish owner.. lol (he just doesn't understand!) I vaccum the gravel and everything else to make sure my fish have the best environment!

What is the way that I should try and cycle with guppies?
Amnagrla is offline  
Old June 6th, 2007  
Fish Keeper
 
Re: Water Chemistry Help

Do you know the name of that "PH Controller"? I've not seen one that helps against ammonia (not that it doesn't exist, I'm just curious). The reason I'm asking is because 1 fish being feed ever other day isn't producing that much waste. And with all the water changes I am wondering if you really even have 0.5ppm ammonia in the tank or if you are getting a false reading because of bound up ammonia.

As to the gravel vacuuming, how often are you doing that? Too often and you are removing good bacteria from your tank. Also do you have live plants in the tank?
Luniyn is offline  
Old June 6th, 2007  
Fish Keeper
 
Re: Water Chemistry Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnagrla
I have a tetra whisper - 115-120 Volts 60 Hz. It came with my 10 gal tropical fish tank kit. It says it's good for a 10-20 gal tank. I'll stop putting in the pH controller. I only started with it because someone in here told me to get it to keep my ammonia down...

Pinto is so lonely!!
What does the Whisper use as a filter element ? Does it have a bio bag or anything ?? If it only has the gauze or cotton or whatever mechanical filter with some carbon then vacuuming the gravel would be a once a week thing and then only half each week. Like do one half one week and the other half the next week.

Being that you are using the API test kit I believe your readings. Your guppy can be a tough fish but seriously watch that ammonia reading!! Once you get Nitrites watch that one too!! Try to keep them at or below .5 like I mentioned earlier. Good luck and be vigilant!! It'll work out.
Gargoyle is offline  
Old June 7th, 2007  
Fish Keeper
 
Re: Water Chemistry Help

It's called Wardley 3 in 1 Water Conditioner... it says it buffers pH to 7.5, eliminates Chorine, and neutralizes ammonia. It says to add 1 teaspoon for every 10 gal once every two weeks.

I vaccum the gravel once a week. The Whisper uses the gauze thing and the carbon, no bio bag. *sigh*

It's amazing how much money I've poured into this tank over the past few months just so I can have one little fish!
Amnagrla is offline  
Old June 7th, 2007  
Fish Keeper
 
Re: Water Chemistry Help

I don't like things that mess with pH unless you really have to. Fish will get used to a lot of things including a high pH, so unless we are talking an out of this world pH (one member had a pH of 9.0 which is way high) there isn't a reason to mess with it. However, if it is the only tap water conditioner that you have (i.e. to get rid of chlorine/chloramines) then with the amount of money you've already spent, I wouldn't ask you to get something different.

As for the Whisper filter, besides the gauze bag with the carbon in it, there should also be a black sponge in a plastic holder (pictured here). This is where your good bacteria is to grow, and if you don't have this piece then you need it. Another option is this Bio3 filter which has a sponge that fits in the clamshell with the gauze bag (or just some plain filter cloth cut to fit if you want to save money and don't care to use the carbon). I actually use both the black sponge and the Bio3 sponge in my Whisper 20 filter, but one or the other will be just fine (but you do need something).

As to what I would do about that tank... I'd cycle it fishless. My feeling is that the reading you are getting for ammonia is actually left over bound up ammonia in your tank and not a real ammonia reading. So let's get a real ammonia reading here and get some good bacteria growing. Get that one fish out of there and into a temporary home in a bucket or one of those small portable plastic tanks if you like (not required). Just an air stone will be enough for him, though you will need to do 50% water changes on whatever he is in every other day. The idea isn't to cycle his temp home, just to keep it clean. As for the tank, start to feed it with some flakes every 12 hours (when you wake up and before you go to bed will work fine), and do not vacuum it or do a single water change. Get that ammonia to spike as high as it wants. There has to be some bacteria in there at this point, and hopefully within a few days of having high ammonia levels you will start to see some nitrite show up. The nitrate should start to show as well, and (as I'm sure you've read time and time again what is supposed to be happening) as soon as ammonia is 0 and nitrite is 0, do a 50% water change to bring the nitrate down (do some light surface vacuuming to get some of that food out of there too) and you will be ready to move your single fish back to his home and get 2 or 3 friends to join him.
Luniyn is offline  
Old June 7th, 2007  
Fish Master
 
Re: Water Chemistry Help

Lunyin, you're a life saver. Your posts are always really well structured, and informative.
armadillo is offline  
Old June 7th, 2007  
Fish Keeper
 
Re: Water Chemistry Help

lol... okay. *Here we go!

How long do you think I'd have to leave poor pinto in a "bucket" haha or a little fishbowl? *If it's less than a week, I have something here I can use, but if it's longer than that, I'd rather just go pick him up his own fishbowl.

I looked at that picture you sent.. I have that black sponge thing-the bio-foam thing. *So in my filter I have that bio-foam thing and a green meshy filter thing with carbon in it.

Sorry to reiterate.. I just want to get this straight! *This is what I'm doing...
1. *Stop using the pH conditioner. *(I will pick up a regular water conditioner when I go out. *Any suggestions?)
2. *Put Pinto in a new bowl with a little gravel. *In my 10g tank I have a clam that blows bubbles, is that what I should put in the little bowl? Or would the O2 stone be best?
3. *Change his water 50% every other day. *
4. *Feed 10g tank every 12 hours. *Let the ammonia spike.. *The Nitrite and Ammonia will go down to 0.
5. *50% WC to bring Nitrate down.
6. *Add Pinto and a couple of buddies!!

Sorry for being a pain. *It's just really been bothering me why this tank isn't all set yet!! *Thanks for all the help!
Amnagrla is offline  
Old June 7th, 2007  
Fish Keeper
 
Re: Water Chemistry Help

Not a bother at all, that's why this forum is here.

Unfortunately I don't know how long it will take to cycle your tank (i.e. how long Pinto will be homeless) as a normal cycle from square 1 can take 4-6 weeks. My hope is that you already have the start of the good bacteria colony in your tank, so it should be shorter because the bacteria grow exponentially (i.e. 1 colony becomes 2, then those 2 split to become 4, then those split to become 8, then 16, then 32, then 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024....... you get the idea). If there is already a few colonies in your tank, then with a good source of food (ammonia) they should really take off on growing. Even still I don't think it would be less then a week. My guess is it will be at least 3 weeks, but that's only a guess based on there being some good stuff already growing.

If you don't mind getting another conditioner, then yes stop using that one that messes with the pH. By the way, have you tested the pH of the water coming from your tap? I'm just curious what it is at? There are several good water conditioners out there, and since you aren't worried about ammonia here, you could use something like Tetra's AquaSafe or Kordon's NovAqua+. The NovAqua+ has some vitamins in it that even though there aren't any fish in the tank to take advantage of it now, down the road your fish might like it. But most of the conditioners are pretty good. I use Prime in my tanks, but that is only because I cycled my tank with fish in it and like the added protection just in case something causes an ammonia spike in my tank (I have a reading of 1.0ppm ammonia right out of my tap which means more in my tank at every water change). Lots of options, these are just a few.

In the bucket or tank that you put Pinto, I would take the clam off the end of the pipe from your air pump and install an airstone like this. I've seen them sold separately for 50 cents each, so they won't put a strain on the pocketbook. But the difference is that the claim usually fills up with air and then opens his mouth to let one large bubble out. Most of this is lost from the tank rather quickly without adding much to the surface area of the tank for long. The hundreds of tiny bubbles that the airstone will release will help with aeration much better.

Change the water 50% every other day is right. Feeding the 10 Gal every 12 hours is right. At the end of the cycle when nitrite and ammonia are at 0 again, check your nitrate. It will probably be in the 40ish range. A 50% water change should be enough to bring it into the 10ppm range, but you could do as much as a 70% water change just to be certain if you like. During this use the gravel vac to lightly vacuum the top of the substrate just to get rid of a lot of that left over fish food from the tank. Don't disturb the gravel at this point, save that for a later date.

Add Pinto and a couple of buddies so that the level of ammonia doesn't drop too much since you will have stopped adding food every 12 hours at this point. There should be plenty of it in the substrate still so it won't fall off too steeply, but still the fish waste will be what keeps the food supply for the good bacteria up. After a week of having the fish in there, and you do your first maintenance water change (to remove the nitrate that has built up over the week) vacuum out only half of the gravel. The following week only do a water change without disturbing the gravel with the siphon. Then the week after that, vacuum out the remaining half of the gravel. After that it's up to you when you want to clean the gravel, but you could really get by with only doing 1/4 of the tank every week when you do your weekly maintenance if you like.

Most importantly... Good Luck!
Luniyn is offline  
Old June 7th, 2007  
Fish Keeper
 
Re: Water Chemistry Help

Luniyn pretty much covered it..
Gargoyle is offline  
 

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