Shawnie

aww birdo

LOL @ fish dates.....NOOOOOOOO dont change the filter or you will be in a total new cycle...just the water changes...you are suppose to have nitrates so thats perfect...and just the lil bit of ammonia you have will require the water change for another day or two...or until its deffinately 0...im sure the smell will dissapear....still giggling on the date thing

Birdo

Well I guess what's confusing about the nitrates, I know I am supposed to have them, but the nitrates in my tap water are 10, and in my tank it's 5. So I don' t know if the nitrates in the tank are from my water source or are forming as a result from cycling. How would I know the difference?

jdhef

I guess it doesn't matter what the source is. As long as your ammonia and nitrites are reading zero, you should be cycled.

Since my tap water has nitrates, I just waited until ammonia and nitrites dropped to zero. Then after adding my first group of fish, I just kept a close eye on ammonia and nitrite levels for about a week to make sure I was fully cycled.

Birdo

Ok that sounds easy enough! Thanks everyone for helping me out! I think the second stage of the nitrogen cycle is the longest stage because it takes the second set of bacteria longer to form right? So I might be doing 50% water changes for a while. I am going to update my tank status now.

0 Ammonia, nitrites between 0 and .25, nitrates 5.0, pH 8.0 for my 29 gallon.

Once the tank is cycled how often should I change it? Once every 2 weeks as a rule, or should I just wait for the parameters to hit a certain number of nitrates?

Lucy

I change the water once a week, if your tank is overstocked, more often might be necessary.

jdhef

I also do a weekly water change of 30% to 50%. The water change not only helps with nitrates, but also the new water is supposed to have more oxegen in it.

But in theory you could just wait until you are getting a nitrate reading of 40.

Birdo

Well ok this really sucks, but my 29 gallon tank went back to reading .25 for ammonia...regardless of my water changing. I noticed the water was cloudy so I changed my carbon, thinking it is over a month already. I did use the same cartridge though, though at the rate things are going now, I am not so sure anything is going to balance out. This is really frustrating. I guess I will go back to feeding them once every 3 days and see if that helps with reducing the ammonia. Tank # 2 is doing nicely with cycling. The cycle was started by one of my platies, then continued by my betta fish, and now has my gourami in it (only). By the way all those fish are fine and doing well, I just moved them to other tanks to give them a break.

Ironic that this tank is doing well even with all the fish changes. *sigh* anyone have any recommendations for what I should do with my sick ghost fish. It still has the white spots, and they are getting worse, but he is still eating well. I guess it is body slime? I am just not sure where to treat him all my tanks are cycling. Thanks!

clinton1621

White spots could possibly be ICH, it depends on how big they are and what they look like.... as for your cycling, try increasing your aeration and possibly using a zeolite & carbon mixture until your ammonia drops back down to avoid stress or illness for your fish friends =(

Birdo

Yes, I know of ich, and body slime and lymphocytis. I know of a lot of diseases believe me, but I have never had ghost fish before, and since they care clear it's hard to tell if it is a discoloration as with body slime or just signs of them turning milky white before they really take a turn for the worst. It is definitely not ich. I've had that disease before, and it looks like salt on the fish's body. Mine looks like cloudy patches now. I tried the salt treatment and it did not work (turning up the temperature and increasing salt in tank).

Then I tried garlic, but I think he is too far into the disease. I am thinking it has to be body slime, doesn't look like lymphocytis not califlower like at all. So far his tail and other fins aren't showing any sign of rot. I have never had a fish last this long with body slime before. I don't want to use antibiotics because the fish tank is still cycling.

I have never heard of zeolite. What is that? I just added new carbon to the filter since the water was getting cloudy. Would zeolite create a disruption in the cycle when it lowers the ammonia?

clinton1621

Zeolite converts ammonia to a different chemical form, it will still be in the tank but not as the toxic form so its better for your fish and it will still feed the bacteria while your cycling

jdhef

I was under the impression that Zeolite absorbs ammonia, and would disrupt the cycle.

Shawnie

birdo, cloudy water is usually a sign of a bacteria bloom and a necessary step in the cycle process..and you having ammonia readings at the same time, confirm that...changing out things in the filter during a cycle was probably not helping things at this point you are going to have to just go with the daily 50% water changes and use prime as it will lock down all the ammonia and nitrites for 24 hours until your next water change...try some stress coat for the slime issues and stop using the salt...salt is more of an irritant to fish and sometimes makes things worse...the toughest part of this is patience and frustrtation but its not totally a loss if the daily changes with prime and stress coat continue...garlic guard (or fresh garlic guard, fish protector,and vita chem will help the fishies feel better also)...they will be your bestfriend..I wouldnt use any more meds until the cycle is complete......goodluck and I hope all the fishies make it!

clinton1621

Zeolyte doesnt really "absorb" ammonia, it converts it to a less toxic form by changing its electrical bond to a different compound but its still ammonia and will be used by the bacteria... on a side note never use this in SW as it reacts much differently and will cause an ammonia rise

Birdo

Thanks everyone for the advice. I am not sure what to do, so I guess I will wait on more opinions on zeolite before I use it. Shawnie, I just changed the carbon, not the whole filter package itself. The ammonia is rising in my tank to .25, is this part of the regular cycling or is it minicycling again? Does putting in new carbon absorb this bacterial bloom? I noticed it does not appear to be happening anymore.

Here is the information I found about the bacterial bloom, it doesn't say anything along with the bloom, though it says that large amounts of ammonia can cause the bacterial bloom. Is this what you meant? I think that the ammonia in the cycle was already being eaten by bacteria before this big bloom since there were nitrites in the tank. Would this surge of bacteria then cause a surge of nitrites in my tank after the bloom is over? Is that what this means?:

"White, cloudy water can be caused by several things, but most commonly is due to a “bacteria bloom” A “bacteria bloom” is usually associated with “new tank syndrome” . Ammonia builds up I the tank and the nitrogen cycle begins. As the aerobic bacteria establishes itself, it floats through the water creating a cloudy appearance. A “bacteria bloom” can also be caused by sudden increases in ammonia due to overfeeding or excess organic waste and decay . losses of large numbers of bacteria due to power outages or other circumstances can also cause “bacteria bloom”.-Jack Epstein

If you have questions about this article, please contact the Author by Email at <v8-jag@worldnet.att.net>


Jack Epstein is a hobbyist of Aquarium Fish since childhood, but a dedicated one for the past 20 years. His fish room consists of sixteen 29 gal. tanks used as “ Discus Breeder Tanks”, four 75 gal “rearing” tanks (for Discus up to one year old), and two 125 gal. tanks used as “his choice and Next Generation breeding stock”. In the past, he specialized in African lakes “Tanganyika Cichlids” like Cyphotilapia frontosa and the Tropheus moorii “Kaiser”. Today, his fishroom is set up to work exclusively with discus, though he miss his Africans he had to make a tough but loving choice. Educated in New Jersey USA. MS. Mechanical Engineer, Surgical Instrumentation & Inventor of four US. Patents. Jack Epstein's e-mail address is V8-JAG@worldnet.att.net "

I also read about changing the water:

"You must test the tank’s water for ammonia and nitrate. If either of these compounds are present, a bacteria culture should be added. Do not do a water change unless levels are DANGEROUSLY HIGH, or fish show signs of STRESS changing water (at this critical time) will only lengthen the time needed for the bacteria to establish itself. If the tank is established one and no fish been added in the past two month or longer, make sure you are not overfeeding . If the problem persists there may be too many fish in your tank for the biological filter to adequately handle. This forces the bacteria to float freely throughout the fish tank. Additional biological filtration will need to be added or some fish may need to be removed from your tank. "-Jack Epstein

The above advice is why I was confused on changing the water so often (50% per day).


I am using Stress Coat as my new water conditioner, and noticed on the bottom that it is supposed to absorb ammonia...could this be the reason my cycle has been disrupted? Perhaps it isn't working as well as my last water purifier and it has ammonia absorption?

There is a substance called Garlic Guard for fish? I have never seen this before. I haven't seen Prime in any petstore yet. Is Prime a name brand? Is Vita Chem a namebrand as well?

Shawnie

Hi birdo...prime is made by seachem and most fish stores carry it..at least around here...prime locks the ammonia and nitrites down for the 24 hours until a next water change...once you have fish, the water changes are a must because any ammonia or nitrite is poisionous to fish.so I DISAGREE with that you dont change water until the ammonia levels are high or the fish looked stressed..most likely that would be too late to worry about anything by then....you HAD a cycled tank and for whatever reason it was broken..the cycle I mean..so now you have to continue cycling with fish...and im sorry I thought you changed out the filter ...carbon will help absorb the ammonia but must be changed once a week while doing so..ammonia will go back into the tank after the carbon abosorbs as much as it can....

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...fm?pcatid=4998 heres a link for vita chem....

garlic guard works awesome as well as an immune booster and an appetite stimulator...I just use fresh garlic out of a jar instead as I cant find any at our fish stores...I feed them the small garlic pieces as well as add the juices to my tanks...goodluck I hope things are getting better!

jdhef

You can order Garlic Gaurd from Drs Foster and Smith also, as well as Prime.

I believe DFS are still accepting this $5 coupon: 11318418 (Stole that info from a sticky thread in the Betta Forum titled Bargin Page). Also, if you use Discover Card to pay you can get 10% cash back. Check out this thread (by yours truely):
http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/fr...hback-dfs.html

Shawnie

I wanna go shopping with you JD!!!!!!! you bargain shopping fanatic~! bet we could save tons of thanks for the link!!

jdhef

Grab your purse, and let's go girl!

Shawnie

I was hoping to use YOUR purse

Birdo

Well good news guys my tanks are all cycled, and with good timing! I have 10 little baby mollies to feed and raise!

Birdo

Hmm...well my 10 gallon is fine, but now my 29 gallon is off again! Perhaps I am feeding them too much! My dwarf gourami died, which probably did spike the ammonia up to .25, but that was a couple days ago, that spike should be gone! Oh well, I guess I really have to be careful with how much I feed them perhaps?

I skipped feeding them for 2 days and now the water seems ok. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 10 nitrate. Isn't it normal for ammonia to spike of there is a dead specimen in the water for 24 hours, or is it the nitrate that is supposed to spike? I thought when a tank was cycled that ammonia isn't supposed to spike.