coffeebean

so i came home late last night from my long weekend away and found that my angelfish had laid eggs on a leaf.
couple things. can anyone confirm the sex of this gold? can i tell somehow if they are fertilized or not? 1/2 of them got eaten overnight...i want to save them, shoudl i cut the leaf off? i can put the leaf in a breeder bag in the tank but will it stress the angelfish? they are guarding the eggs right now.
what is the incubation time?

Shawnie

the gold is a male ..they will eat the white ones which arent fertilized.....you can move the leaf but you need a nice warm tank, 80-82f , a bubble rock for good circulation, and prestine water with partial changes every day so they wont mold...if mom and dad are fanning them, and keeping others away, id leave them...if they eat them you know they will spawn again and it most always takes 2-3 spawns before they learn not to eat them...butterfly has a few threads on moving the eggs im sure you can search and find...congrats!!!!

EDIT: oops didnt see the incubation question

day 2-3 you will see wigglers
day 4-5 you will see eyes and the eggs sacks are slowly going away (they eat this until free swimming)
day 6-7 free swimmers..now you feed baby brine shrimp, decapsulated shrimp eggs, micro worms...either of which you can get....

by now mom and dad usually either are great parents or its time to move the babies out

coffeebean

im not sure fry will make it in this tank. there are long finned rosey barbs, platys and swordtails. im thinking they will make short work of the fry.
they are looking after the eggs well, not sure what happened overnight though as 1/2 got eaten. fanning them and chasing others away.
i was thinking of hanging a breeder net in the tank its in so that they have the same water. should i turn the temp up in there? you said 80*, the tank is currently 78*

Shawnie

mom and dad wont let anyone near them if they are good parents...dont matter whose in the tank but you can try to save them ...at least you know you have a breeding pair...if by day 3 you see all white eggs, dont panic...it might take them a time or 2...change of seasons has spawnings all over the place....if it were me, id leave them this time to see how mom and dad do ...dont want to stress them on the first few trys....but again, thats me...send carol a pm as she is faboo with knowledge and help with them...ive let all my fry get to free swimmers before i remove them ..but some dont...turning up the temp wont hurt...make sure the bubble wand is located close to the eggs if you decide to remove them..as the fanning keeps the fungus off the eggs....

coffeebean

thank you for the advice.
they are being awesome parents. both of them. i am rather concerned that if i remove them they will stress a lot. i think i will leave them this time and just see how it goes.

Butterfly

Shawnie your pretty faboo with knowledge yourself
I totally agree with leaving them at least this time to see what kind of parents they are going to be. I do have to caution though... If any of the smaller fish get too close the angels will hit them pretty hard. I have had angels come out of the water after my hand when feeding too close to eggs/fry.
At pretty much three days after free swimming they become live food for mom and dad. My theory is that in the wild the fry would be able to spread out and forge for food on their own/hide in plants etc. But in the glass boxes we call aquariums they can't go far enough to get away and become independent.
In the first 24hrs the eggs that are not fertilized will turn white and most angels are good about keeping them cleaned off. The first time Dad may not be very expert at covering all the eggs. That may be what happened to those that went missing last night.
Leaving the light on 24hrs will go a long way toward keeping mom and dad relaxed. They can see/defend their eggs/fry from the other tank mates easier.
Since fry will eat more often when the lights are on I leave it on 24 hrs for about a week after I pull them. and do 50% water changes every day. They have a good growth spurt when you do this.
If you need anything please let us know
Carol

Shawnie

oops i forgot about the lights LOL ...see carol you always have my back covered!!!!! phewww....thats a must at least with my pairs.....be preparred for more algae but its totally cleanable (is that a word?) after you remove the fry

coffeebean

so they will protect the fry when they are free swimming at first?

Shawnie

mine do until about day 4 of free swimming..which is about day 10-11 after spawning

Butterfly

Yep mine wait about three days
Carol

aquarist48

Great photos and beautiful Angels Coffeebean. Congrats on the eggs. I think it's a good idea to see how the parents do for their first spawn with any fish. Keep us posted and best of luck!
Ken

coffeebean

wow, ok, my son has keen eyes!!!

i noticed that today the white eggs are gone and the rest of them look very transparent. not sure about them...

anyways, he spotted that they had laid on another leaf as well. and we have WIGGLERS!!! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOT

Butterfly

Congrats! Aren't they cute? Just wiggling away On another note they may not have laid in two places. Frequently they will move them from spot to spot especially when they start wiggling. To separate those that are and those that are not When they start free swimming mom and dad will take them in their mouths and spit them back in the group like their saying "I told you not to wander away!"
Carol

aquarist48

Oh wow! I know you have to be excited CoffeeBean.
Ken

coffeebean

wow. that is so cool!! i bet thats what they did as the ones on the other leaf are not developing.

now i have a bit of a problem though. some were sliding down to the bottom of the leaf and falling off, so i scooped them, not wanting them to hit the ground and be snacked. there are about 3/4 left on the leaf. the ones that fell off are in my breeder net hanging in the tank. at this stage, wiggling, do they still need an air stone? or is the circulation from the tank alright?

Butterfly

The wigglers will frequently scoot down to the edge of what ever they are deposited on and hang. If they are in danger of falling mom and dad will usually scoop them up and replace them on the leaf.
Now that they are in a tank... If the circulation is good that should be sufficient. They need enough water movement to keep them moving. If they don't they need a bubble stone. Here is a really bad pic of wigglers hanging on the edge of what they were placed on
Carol

Attached Images

wigglers.jpg (22.2 KB, 52 views)

coffeebean

they moved them again!! posted pics in my blog

Butterfly

i lost your blog!! Would you link for me please

coffeebean

hmm...i thought it was in my sig line. appears i have NO sig at all now.

its http://myaquaticgarden.blogspot.com/

coffeebean

and now i have a sig again? im so confused

Butterfly

THX didn't see a sig. I think the first post on a page will have the sig but the rest won't. I think it's to save space ?
The pics are adorable in your blog. can you see their eyes yet ?
Carol

Neji

I love the pictures coffeebean

aquarist48

Great photos CoffeeBean!
Ken

iloveengl

Lol! I love the picture of lemon telling you to beat it & the picture of mom spitting out the baby. What a cool welcome home surprise! Congratulations!

coffeebean

well, unless they are hiding them in a secret location, all the eggs are gone. when i looked at the tank this morning there was nothing, but they are still guarding their leaf. then mom spit the babies out onto the leaf, she had been holding them in her mouth.
since them they seem to have disappeared and mom and dad have eaten so they cant be in their mouths. they are still guarding their plant though im pretty disappointed. but, if they lay once, they will lay again.

iloveengl

oh, I'm sorry cofeebean. I know you were excited for them. Maybe a couple managed to survive and they're hiding? You're right, though. Another set of babies are probably coming along. But I'll still keep my fingers crossed that at least one baby is safely hiding out somewhere.