talofa

just picked up 2 juvie koi angels from LFS earlier this afternoon. i acclimated them to my tank (floating for 15 mins, and adding a little tank water to their bag twice for 10 more minutes). i watched the activity after angels were released into the tank and no bullies were apparent. abut 5-6 hours later, i came home to find both angels in bad shape, one mouth down in the substrate and the other kind of on its side. the first one looks almost dead and the clown loach's and feeder shrimp are begining to think he is food. the other is swimming around somewhat but kind of "drifts" through the water aimlessly not really well. this is my first time with angels so looking for some tips/advice on what happened and what i can do.

Tank-29g high, been in use for 2 years (3 months with current filtration setup)
Filtration/aeration-Power filter 330 GPH, 1 air stone
substrate- black sand
tank mates - (2) 3" Pearl Gourami's, (3) 1.5-2" clown loaches, (1) 1.5" Pleco, (10) feeder ghost shrimp.
plants-hygro, val, amazon swords, java moss
deco-driftwood

Readings were taken at same time fish were acclimated with Mardel 5 in 1 test kit.

nitrate-20ppm
nitrite-0ppm
hard/softness-120ppm
alkalinity-180ppm
pH-7.6

talofa

from the info on the fish lore angelfish profile page, they like slightly acidic (ph 6-7.5) & softer water (5-13 dgH). my water was not as acidic as they like and on the upper end of the hardness but are angelfish that sensitive to react that quickly.

talofa

after finding my fish, i removed them and set them in a bucket with an air stone and a couple hours later and they are starting to look a little better. do you think high current from the power filter in the tank could cause that much stress to the fish?

Nick Goody

What are your ammonia levels? Angelfish are intolerant of ammonia in the water. They will quite often be the first fish to die if any ammonia is present.

talofa

ill get them checked tomorrow (gotta pick up ammonia test kit)

capekate

Hello Talofa
sorry to hear your new angels are not doing so well. My guess is that there is a water quality issue going on, since you say they seemed to perk up in the bucket. Did you use tank water in that bucket? Or new water? It sounds like something is seriously wrong with the water quality for them to react in such a way. You mentioned that you have not had fish in your tank for awhile and you may have lost all the beneficial bacteria and may be in a mini cycle at the moment with toxins in the water. Do you have any water conditioner that you use with water changes such as Prime? Something that says it detoxifies the ammonia? I would add that to the water asap after doing a water change in the tank of at least 50% and see if that doesnt help them. The test strips are not as accurate as the liquid water test kits and its possible that you are getting false readings on your water test.
But for now, I really would do a water change asap and see if it helps them.
And yes, they really are that sensitive to water conditions.
Best of luck with them. I love the Koi Angels.

talofa

ive had fish in that tank for a while, just took them out when doing the substrate change from gravel to sand. i put the old fish back in the tank afterwards and even added a couple clown loaches the next day and they all seem to be doing fine (active, eating well, no signs of stress). I use Kordon NovAqua Plus at every water change, though it does not remove ammonia. the bucket has a little bit of tank water, with the rest of it being tap water with NovAqua Plus. One angel seems almost normal now, the other still don't look too well, though better than he did in the original tank.
--
for now, ill do another water change and add NovAqua, tomorrow ill pick up some of that API Master Kit that seems to be the test of choice on these forums and ill post up the results and status of the angels. thanks

capekate

You may have sent your tank into a mini cycle when you changed the substrate. Since your angels are doing better in the new water, I would say that you are probably showing signs of ammonia in your tank. The Angel fish are more sensitive and that is why they are showing the problems.
I would advise when you go to the store to pick up a product that includes the ammonia detox as I believe that will help you when you put your angelfish back into the tank til your tank is once again truly cycled.
Best of luck and please keep us posted.

talofa

thanks for the patience and great advice, im learning so much more about fish keeping in the short time since I've discovered FishLore. I'll pick up one of those ammonia detox products and will read up on the mini cycle. thanks again, ill post updates when i got them.

talofa

update: angels died following morning (1/3) ... i've been doing 20% water changes every other day since and using Kordon Amquel Plus. Picked up the API master test kit and tested water today.

pH: 7.8
ammonia: 0ppm-0.25ppm (closer to 0 though)
nitrate: 0 PPM
nitrite: 0 ppm

Nick Goody

Maybe try doing 50% water change and see if they perk up, if so do this daily until your water parameters come good. Angels are really sensitive to water parameters.

talofa

yea, next time i go for angels, im gonna wait till my water parameters are stable for a while. don't want anymore dead angels.