DarkRevoultions

Please help me

My angels aren't always at the top anymore, I think I must of done some stupid water change, and I use reverse osmosis water, my fishes are swimming at the top yesterday, now they are at the bottom.

I don't know what is wrong, I have the pump on and the filter on, and the last time I checked, I found some transparent stuff floating at the top I DON'T WANT TO HAVE MY FISHES KILLED!!!

Also, I have other fishes, and they are suffering too!!

my fishes are breathing heavily

sirdarksol

What size tank?
How many angels and how large?
What other fish and how big are they?
What is your ammonia PPM reading, nitrite ppm reading, and nitrate ppm reading?
Any visible marks on any of the angels (in particular, red spots, black spots, fuzzy patches, or things that look like grains of salt?)
Any chance you forgot anything when doing a water change? Are there minerals you normally add, conditioner, etc...
Any chance the RO membrane got punctured, allowing impurities through?

DarkRevoultions

I have 4 angels, 4 dwarf gouramis, and they are in a 29 gallon tank.

I never had the problem before until i did the water change, and then my filter was out for the entire night after I did some water change.

Should I replace my filter stuff in my aqua clear 30? and I have a lot of plants, and my fishes are suffering except for the male guppies I have in.

I NEED HELP!

ANYTHING BASIC WILL BE BEST PLEASE.

DarkRevoultions

Also, the ammonia level is zero, and nitrite shouldn't be a problem because I have reverse osmosis water, and a lot of live plants which always help with the water.

I tasted the water, and it's really salty, and I think it was from the freshwater aquarium salt that I used.

And, non of my other fishes are suffering, it's just my angels.

I can't let this happen again!

Allie

I wouldn't ever put salt in with South American fish. They don't have much salinity in their waters.
HO wmuch salt did you use? 1 tbsp per 5g is good, when you are healing fish.

DarkRevoultions

I just lightly sprinkled some across the entire tank, but I don't know if I should just keep on doing frequent water changes.

I raised my fishes for about 5 months now.

kieley

i would do a quick water change... making 100% sure to dechlorinate and keep the right temp this time
not that ive been around for long but your the first person ive seen say they tasted the fish water lol

mathas

What does having RO water have to do with lack of nitrites? I'm not being argumentative, I actually want to know. That said, 7 days ago you said you used water "from a special oasis". Did you do the most recent water change with RO water, or with natural water?

I'm also going to agree with Allie, that the salt is not only unnecessary, but possibly harmful. 6 days ago, you said there was a pleco in your 29g tank... plecos do not tolerate salt well at all. Is there any specific reason you're adding salt to an otherwise healthy freshwater fish tank?

You also haven't answered some of sirdarksol's questions, which could have a bearing:

Allie

Well you have no clue how much you actually put in. If you can taste salt than it's too much. Keep doing 10% water changes daily, until you can't taste the salt.

DarkRevoultions

Yeah I use the water from the oasis too, but I tried a different approach.

I just started using the RO water about 2 days after.

DarkRevoultions

That's a lot of water changing to do now.

Are you sure my fishes won't die from it??

It's like replacing water that isn't the same thing.

Usually the water I get from the special oasis, somehow, I don't know if it's going to help me, because it runs on soft water, and I don't know but I think it could be poisoned, since I couldn't do that, I had to find some other way, because I never use tap water, and my 29 gallon is just fairly new, but my other tanks haven't been infected and I house angels in them too.

Allie

With a 29g gallon it's nothing.
I have never lost fish do to clean water. When we grow out baby fish we do daily water changes anyways.

DarkRevoultions

Oh alright, so then I should probably do that too?? I always take my filter out and rinse it, because that is what someone else does to their fish tanks.

I have my gouramis, guppies, tetras, and a pleco, they still do fine.

I also lost my betta this morning.

sirdarksol

Sounds like good advice above.

If you're using RO water, you will need to replace some minerals (though not much for SA fish). Check this out This type of thing is the ideal additive for RO water. This is long term care, though. For now, we'll focus on getting your fish healthy.

RO will take the nitrite out of the tap water, but it won't stop the nitrifying bacteria from turning ammonia into nitrite.
Similarly, the plants do help, but they don't guarantee that there aren't any nitrates. (I'm dealing with a nitrate rise in a planted tank of my own).

Still, I'm guessing at salt poisoning. It fits the symptoms best. Freshwater aquariums shouldn't taste salty (I'm basing this on having tasted freshwater from lakes and rivers. I've never tasted my aquarium waters).
what to do
1)As Kieley said, do a water change (50% at least). Don't add any salt. If you have some, put some Prime or Ultimate water conditioner into the tank. Check your RO system over just to be sure there aren't any breaks in the membrane. If anything gets broken, it's possible that chlorine/chloramine could get into your tank, even if the system normally removes it.
Edit: This is a gamble, but I don't think your SA fish will survive if you do daily 10% changes. Perhaps a middle-ground would be to do several 10% changes over a day.

2)I'd oxygenate the tank, if it's not already. I normally don't bother suggesting it for people who have HOB filters, but your fish may need every bit of help they can get until they can flush the salt from their bodies.

3)Check your filter media. If it's clogged, change half of it (only the pouch. Don't change the sponge. If the sponge is clogged, just swish it gently in a bucket of tank water).

4)I would suggest doing a nitrite and nitrate test, just to be sure. Both of these can cause lethargy like you are describing (though it would likely hit the gourami first). It's just best to cover all of your bases.

One final question: I'm seeing a huge list of fish that are "doing fine" are all of these fish in the 29g tank? I saw in another thread that you had a "large pleco" in a 29g. Is that in this tank? If so, it is probably suffering severely from the salt. Plecos can't stand any amount of salt for any length of time. They don't have scales, and the salt essentially sucks the water right out through their skin, dehydrating them (yes, while they're still underwater).

Good luck with your fishies.

DarkRevoultions

Do you think it was due to the loss of many fishes, that might be somewhere in the gravel, could that be any problem? because I know that people who don't take out the dead fishes, it can cause problems to the water.

I also, have cabomba, amazon sword, wisteria, and anacharis.

I don't know if there is a problem on that.

DarkRevoultions

Well, I do have dwarf male gouramis, black skirt tetra, 2 male guppies, 2 red eyed tetras, and the large pleco, it has been doing fine.

To tell you the truth, the pleco has survived through so many things. I survived high ammonia levels, and when my fishes were dying it was still healthy, it never died. It just sticks to the aquarium glass, and cleans the algae.

I usually see it eating my plant leaves at night, when the light has been turned off.

Right now, the oasis I have has been tested before when I was getting some water from it, and it wasn't filled with ammonia, or nitrite, since it flowed from the mountains, and then runs through the fields, and then comes to my little pond which I now call it an oasis because I get my drinking water from it, and then boil it. Before I used to take tap water, and a britta filter.

My fishes have been fine, and my altum is still alive for some reason.

They usually die out for some people.

It is still very sick, but I doubt it will die, because it never died, and other than that I could easily transfer it to my 200 or 350 gallon tank.

My other tanks have been fine with the water.

I know what you mean by the 50% water change, and the 10% water change daily, but usually the water in the river down here in Colombia is always clean, and the altums I always see are always alive, and the river is just gently flowing.

Although in my tank, it's not dirty at all, I cleaned the filter using the water I got from the tap, and it's usually clean, and never affected anything in my tank before when i always clean it.

I replaced the filter sponge, and charcoal. I didn't put the bio stones in or anything, it doesn't really do much because they are just simple chalky stuff to me.

So all my tanks don't have the bio stuff.

I found that my fishes could be poisoned by the salt, because usually when I take out a sample of the water and put my finger in it and then I touch my tounge onto it, and it is always salty.

I don't know but someone on youtube, her username is Gerardrander she uses aquarium salt for her 55 gallon tank, and her 20 gallon long. They are all fine.

I always keep in contact with her usually, and she gives me good information. I do as what she says and sometimes it works if my angels can with stand it.

Although I think I over did it. I should probably stop putting in aquarium salt for along time I guess.


I am freaking out all the time, so I am always performing a water change every week, and siphon it as what the women on youtube does.

DarkRevoultions

Also, for the nitrite I don't know if it usually will hit my gourami first.

Becase all of them are fine, but I don't know because sometimes they are on the bottom too. The female pregnant dwarf gourami is fine, and I think my angels are starting to feel better, but I can't really guarantee everything, because my fishes might just start to drop to the bottom again.

I am hoping that everything you all says works.

Just please, if you can offer anymore information, that can help.

My other tanks were never infected, and the temperature is always 80ºF for every tank, and the filter is the same aqua clear brand, and I am always cleaning the filter every time it starts to get gunky.

sirdarksol

I'm going to try to clear up a basic misunderstanding here: Just because a fish survives, that doesn't mean it's doing well. It is nearly inconceivable to me that a large pleco (define large for me, by the way. These guys can grow to 18". I consider anywhere over 9" to be large) could be doing well in a 29g tank. Sure, it may survive. I saw a 6" pleco survive in a 10g tank for a year. But it died for no obvious reason. Plecos can live to be ten years old or more, if they're kept in a large enough tank. A one year old is still a juvenile. It's like a human living to be 8 or so (not quite, but it's a rough analogy).

There are a lot of old aquarium-keeping ideas out there that are based on theories that weren't quite sound. They were excellent theories for their time, but we've found that they don't work. The use of salt in freshwater aquariums is one of those things. It had a strong basis: A lot of people had really soft water and noticed that their fish didn't do well as time went on. They discovered that adding salt helped things. Thus, salt became a staple in aquariums.
At the same time, certain fish (mostly Amazonian fish) developed reputations for being notoriously difficult to keep. This was, I believe, largely due to the addition of salt to the aquariums. Only when everything else was perfect would these fish even survive the addition of aquarium salt.

Since then, many people have found different ways of doing things (using the mineral mix I showed you rather than salt to raise the hardness of their water is just one example). Some of the old stuff still works, but much of it has become obsolete as newer, better methods are found. Still, some people cling to the use of aquarium salt, or the idea that water changes kill fish, etc... And some of their fish survive. But most of them, when they come around here, talk about their fish living for two or three years, when many fish have lifespans of ten, sometimes twenty years.

In the long run, your tank is very heavily overstocked. In a 29g tank, a few adult angels might feel at home. With all of the extra fish, the plants won't be able to take care of all of the nitrates being produced. Further, there's a hormone that fish secrete that inhibits growth. The higher concentration of this hormone, the slower they grow. This is a temporary solution to temporary space problems (like if a lake bed mostly dries up during a particularly dry year). In the long run, it hurts the fish if their growth is continually stunted, as the organs tend to still grow faster while stunted.

Of course, nobody can make you change any of your setups, but we're most interested in seeing you succeed as an aquarist, which is why we give you advice like this.

DarkRevoultions

Yes I definately see why you give me the advice.

My pleco in my 29 gallon tank is 13" but I do have a smaller on in my 10 gallon tank, it is only 2-3" long.

My largest is about 25" in my 350 gallon, I know that people say that they can grow up to 18" max, but my friend here in Colombia has one larger than mine in a 400 gallon tank. His pleco is nearly 30" but it is really old, and I think the pleco encountering health failure. The pleco I have is only 15 years, and his is 20 years.

Although, I don't know why plecos can die with out warning.

So when you were mentioning about people having so much trouble with raising tropical fishes, because the tanks needed to be siphoned more often and more water changes, some people don't do a lot of water changes :S

Some how I have gained a lot of experience with the fishes, and I don't really have so many ailments that happen to my fishes.

I would do some water changes, but I don't know because my water is lightly cloudy. I think I forgot to tell you that.

Becuase my 10 gallon and my other tanks aren't cloudy at all. Right now, my fishes are at the top probably wanting some air. So then I kept the lid open.

Also, just one thing. I am always siphoning the tank at least once a week, and I usually find that when I used aqua plus nothing bad happened, but now I don't know why the entire cycle is going wrong.

sirdarksol

The problems people were having with the South American fish were due to the use of aquarium salt, I believe. It was used in virtually every aquarium for a long time. Since these fish don't naturally have salt in their water, it was stressful to them. A stressed fish is potentially a sick fish.

If you don't have any ammonia or nitrites in the water, your cycle hasn't gone wrong. If you do, then there must be some reason (though I don't know what). A fully cycled tank will never have any ammonia or nitrites in it, and will have some nitrate reading.

DarkRevoultions

So then are you saying that some nitrite is okay to have in the tank?

I never buy test kits, because it is too expensive for me, so I can never really know.

I could take the water samples to the petstore nearby, but I don't know if I should, because they don't know anything, the last time I said that they can test my water because the manager said that, and now they say I can't, but I don't know because the women doesn't really know anything anyway.

How long will it even take for my water to be back to normal?

DarkRevoultions

Also, why do some people put in aquarium salt for their tropical fishes??

sirdarksol

This is one of those older practices. In some cases, it's used for medicine. This is especially useful if you don't have access to some meds (I guess they're getting difficult to get in some countries, due to laws regarding antibiotics).
In other cases, it's used simply because the person was told to use aquarium salt. "My dad did it, so I do it."
Originally, it was used to ease osmotic stress on hardwater fish living in aquariums with soft water. The mineral mixes I showed you are, in my opinion, a better replacement for that task.

DarkRevoultions

Oh I see.

My water is always soft water, and I usually keep the temperature at 80ºF I don't want to really lower the temperature, and I don't know if I even try lowering the water level anyway, it's not really going to do anything.

By the way, when you mean by doing water changes, it isn't siphoning the tank all the time is it??

pepetj

DarkRevolutions:
I keep South and Central American Cichlids. I don't use salt at all with them -indeed with any FW fish except brackish.

If you added too much salt, you may need to perform several huge water changes in order to remove it. Your tank may still contain readable Na+ CL- even if you do a 100% water change (in case you went over the saturation point, some salt will be suspended without being dissolved, once you add water, it dissolves). Taste a bit your aquarium water, I doubt it will harm you and it will give you a good idea of when salt is out.

This is likely what is happening to you. I agree with SDS that your fish behavior suggest too much salt in there. Salt in FW brings fluids out of the fish body so they are dehidrated -likely lost too many electrolytes and they are at risk of dying.

Trace minerals for RO water is available from API and likely other manufacturers. If you have GH and KH test reagents we can work a DIY formulation during the weekend. But first get the salt out.

At this point keep your eye on the most affected fish, keep your temp at 80F and provide enough dissolved O2.

Hope you work this out. Don't worry about too much water changes. Right now, it's in my honest opinion, what could save your fishies.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

DarkRevoultions

Well, I just lost one fish to the now called Deadly water, I just don't know what I can do next. I might have to keep the filter running, an hopefully it will help me.

I might perform another water change. I still have to do another healing session with my partner. So I won't be able to do much for my tank.

Shawnie

I think a combo of the salt, and ammonia and nitrates might be the cause...once you get a test kit and determine that the ammonia and nitrtates arent the reason, you can blame the salt ...that plec is way too big for that tank so the ammonia is probably sky high as well as nitrates...the water changes will be you and your fishes best friend for now ..goodluck!

DarkRevoultions

Trust me, if I had Sky High ammonia levels, then my fishes wouldn't even be alive right now.

Shawnie

trust me , they would be..some can tolerate more than others..and some survive in it but dont thrive in it

Beeker

You'd be amazed at what some fish can live in. Like Shawnie said, they survive, but don't thrive.