Regal

I’ve had some unexplained fish deaths in the last 3 weeks. Specifically, two full grown angels, two blue ram Cichlids, three Rummy Nose Tetras and one of my Corys has been hanging on for 2-3 weeks. The angels and the Cory I’ve had for almost two years. They have no symptoms and are fine one day then just suddenly end up on the bottom of the tank, gasping and die very quickly.

• The two angels were a mated pair and died about 2 weeks apart.
• The rams were a female and a male. The female I haven’t had very long. I watched her sit in a LFS for several months with very poor coloring and avoided buying her because she didn’t look good. Once I brought her home she colored up quickly and seemed to be doing really well before dying suddenly.
• Two days ago, I watched one of the Rummy Nose Tetras swimming happily with the others right before he seemed to fall down and die within maybe a half hour.
• The male Ram was fine yesterday. While I was vacuuming the gravel he got very still. By the time I refilled the tank he was laying on his side and died a couple hours later.
• I pulled out all 5 Corys and put them in a ten gallon. The Cory was the first one to have problems so I thought it made sense to take them out. It was a cycled tank. He is still alive and looks great but he is swimming funny and lays on his side a lot. They laid eggs yesterday.
• Strangely, the Otos are all fine. I thought they were supposed to be really sensitive.

My water parameters are always good. I just tested with the API test kit. I did a water change yesterday.
ammonia – 0
nitrite – 0
nitrate – 5
pH – 6-6

I did have a teeny ammonia reading after moving my tank about 2 months ago but I do regular weekly 50% water changes and the ammonia went away in a week. The fish didn’t seem to be affected by it at all. Not that I could tell anyway.

I’ve had a major algae problem lately. I think it’s beard algae. It’s dark greenish grey and hair like. It grows on the edges of older sword and Red Ludwiga eaves and spreads to the newer leaves as they grow. It grows in big tufts all over my Stargrass. I had java moss covering two pieces of driftwood and those were both covered in the ugly grey algae. I have long floating Anacaris(sp?) and it’s covered in it too. It’s not on the glass, gravel or equipment.

I’ve done 2 massive prunings trying to get ahead of this stuff. I’ve thrown out 80% of my plants but it just comes back.

I started thinking the algae was killing the fish. I bought two Siamese Algae Eaters and added 5 one inch molly fry from another tank to eat the algae. They are all doing great and they do peck at the algae.
When the first angel died I thought it might just be a fluke. When the second one died I thought maybe it was because it lost its mate but this is getting ridiculous. It seems like they are getting poisoned.

• Would the algae have any effect on the fish or could the removal of my plants have hurt them?
• Could there be something different in the city water I use?
• Would a fertilizer tab for pond plants be harmful to aquarium fish?

I should have asked for help sooner. I’d appreciate any advice anyone has to offer.

aquarist48

Hello Sue. So sorry to hear about your fish loss and frustrations. I know it can be rough at times. From your threads, posts and conversations I feel sure you are an impeccable fish Mom so there is something that is being missed. hmmmm
Have you used any air fresheners, insecticides, around the tank? Was there a time that you might have had lotion or bug sprays on your hands or arms and then did tank maintenance?
Depending on how long you had ammonia in the tank and how high it was, the fish could be possibly suffering the after affects due to exposure. I don't see that algae would be too large of a concern. I've never used the root tabs you speak of. Who knows what is in city water these days. I'm glad I have well water! However, I have seen threads where peoples city water has been changed with numerous additives. Removing the plants could have caused a spike but I don't have any proof of this.
Wishing you the best Sue. Hopefully with more responses we can figure this out.
Keep us updated.
Ken

Lucy

Oh Sue, I'm so sorry for your losses.
This idea may be far fetched, I want to do some reading up on it, but is it possible with an algea outbreak the oxygen levels decrease?
Perhaps other members could comment on this.

aquarist48

Hello. Lucy I think if the oxygen had been depleted that the Ottos would be gasping at the top for air or deceased. I would think the algae would have to be so thick in the tank that the fish could barely swim around. JMO
Ken

Lucy

Makes sense Ken, thanks!

sirdarksol

Yeah, algae can do that (deplete oxygen), but it usually is choking off at least the top when that happens. I've seen lakes that have had the problem, and they had a layer of algae a foot deep in the affected areas. It would probably be at least an inch in an aquarium.

The fast-growing algae that won't go away reminds me of cyanobacteria, but your physical description of the algae is so different from what I've seen that I don't think that's the answer.

AlyeskaGirl

I am sorry you lost some fish.

Just a thought but did you check the dates on your test kit to make sure it's not expired?

What about High concentration of CO2? The best course of action that i"ve come across is that if you think the fish are bein poisoned and/or you don't know what is going on, then getting them out of the main tank and put into freshwater would be the next step to rule out if it is something in the tank again possibly poison.

Regal

thanks Ken

I haven’t sprayed air fresheners or bug spray or anything around the tank at all. We have only just recently turned the furnace on so I haven’t started covering myself in lotion yet. I’m the only one who puts hands in the tank.

We did have painters in the kitchen but I covered the tank any time they sanded. They were nice enough to warn me every time they sanded so I didn’t forget. (We now have a 10 foot wide National Geographic map of the world in the kitchen, which is awesome!) The painting was a few weeks before all the fish deaths started.

The ammonia spike was so slight it wasn’t even green enough to be at the .25 mark on the color chart so I don’t know.



I don't know if the algae could deplete the oxygen that much or not. It’s pretty common for me to do a massive trimming of the plants every few months, not from the algae but just to give the fish swimming room. That hasn’t caused problems before. I don’t know but I would think the tank would be well oxygenated from the overflow. There’s a lot of water flow in there with a Maxi-Jet 3000 pump. It’s 775 GPH and if I’m reading the chart on the box correctly, at a height of 4 feet it is 600+ gph.

When the Ram, the last one to die, was laying on the bottom I ran to the store and bought some distilled water to put him in, thinking something in the tank had poisoned him. Unfortunately it took me too long to think of that and he died before I got him out of the tank.

The only co2 I have is 2 DIY 2-liter bottles. That couldn’t be to much could it? I always have low ph and a week ago when I did the water change I added a bigger bag of crushed coral. The ph climbed from 6.2 to 6.6. That was after some of the fish died though.

I have to check the dates on the test kit.

Shawnie

oh no sue!!!!!! im sorry for your losses
I hope you find out what it is
another suggestion is change of seasons plays an effect on fish also...I lost some angels and bn's without any reasoning that I can find..and a few members suggested that ...seeing how no other answers could be explained, ive guessed maybe that was it..although it was my first time experiencing that ...good luck with the researching

Regal

I have to see if I can find Hubby’s camera and then in a couple minutes I’ll post some algae pics.

I’m leaning toward the plant root tabs I put in there. It would be the right time frame. They were from the pond section at Petsmart. They are:

Crystal Clear Aquatic Plant Fertilizer 10-14-8.

I usually use API or Seachem tabs but I haven’t been able to find them locally for a while. Either that or something in the water.

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all the help trying to figure this out.

Thank you Shawnie.

I have had some temperature fluctuations recently. In the summer I end up turning off the heaters on the tanks and then when it cools off they get turned on and when the furnace gets turned on there are more adjustments.

The deaths have just been so sudden

aquarist48

Hello Sue. I think it was best that the fish didn't go into the distilled water. The pH is so low in distilled (with no tap added) the fish would have died from pH shock.
Ken

Melissawater

I am so sorry about your babies, I know it is really hard We use jungle plant food tabs 0-0-6 that are specific for aquarium, perhaps yours has different ingredients where it is for a pond....not sure, but I hope you figure it out.

Regal

Would spring water be better if another fish starts looking bad?

The ones I used were 10-14-8. I don't understand what that means that well but it sounds pretty far from 0-0-6.

Here are some pics of the algae. Please don't mind the fish that won't get out of the way. They beg for food more than my dog does. The white looking sword on the far left of the tank is what is left after I did a bleach dip Thursday. The algae turned white and fell off or was eaten but the plant is not looking good. In the second pic, the smaller sword in the front had a peroxide dip. Seemed to have no effect of the sword or the algae. The leaves on all the swords are just shredded, I guess from the algae.

Attached Images

	whole tank algae.JPG (105.8 KB, 53 views)
	fishlore right side algae.jpg (139.9 KB, 52 views)
	fishlore koi algae left.jpg (117.1 KB, 50 views)

Melissawater

I'm not positive of what the numbers stand for, I only assume it might have something to do with ingredients....maybe someone with more experience can tell us.

Regal

Yeah, that's about where I'm at lol. I have been trying to find an apples to apples comparison on the tabs I added recently and the ones I usually use.

Shawnie

dipping the plants in bleach or peroxide wouldnt have something to do with it would it? usually a quick 4-5 second ice water dip will do the trick for most plants...

mathas

Those numbers represent the percentage the fertilizer contains (usually by weight) of the three macronutrients plant needs... Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium.

So the root tabs you added are 10% nitrogen, 14% phosphorus, and 8% potash/potassium, while the tabs Melissa mentions have no or negligible nitrogen and phosphorus, and 6% potash/potassium.

aquarist48

Hello Sue. Spring water (from what I've purchased around my area) usually has a pH level of 7.0. You would need to test both the pH in your tank and the spring water and then decide. You may need to add some tap with the chlorine removed to the spring water as well, depending on the pH of your tank. Get your pH levels as close together as possible. The new water could even be a tad higher and you shouldn't have any problems. If the new water is lower than the tank then it could be very risky and result in fish loss.
I don't think there is enough algae in your tank to have depleted the oxygen. Your tank is beautiful and you have some beautiful angels there!
Ken

Regal

I'll try the ice water! I didn't know about that one. I had already lost the two angels, female ram and two of the rummy nose tetras at that point and was getting a little desperate. It probably wasn't the best idea.

Thank you Mathis

Do you think the root tabs could be causing both problems, the fish deaths and the algae? At this point I want the root tabs out of the tank, they're white and gooey under the gravel, but I'm afraid to stir things up trying to get them out.

aquarist48

Sue can you siphon them out?
Ken

Regal

Yes, I got some of it out Sunday but I also lost my male ram during that water change / gravel vac. The problem is I don't know exactly where in the tank I put the tabs. When I vaccum next time hopefully I can get the last out of the gravel with out stirring it up and killing the fish.

mathas

The PetSmart page for this product says it's "formulated for smaller ponds of 1,000 gallons or less." If the fertilizer is appropriate for a 1000 gallon pond, it's likely contributing to at least the algal growth if used in a 75 gallon aquarium. Putting in 10 times more Flourish than you need would likely also cause algal problems.

I don't know what the impact would be on the fish, but you indicated that adding the tabs and the fish losses were in the same time frame. If you have a healthy tank, add a new product, and then have an unhealthy tank, the new product should be suspect.

Meenu

I'm sorry for the loss of your fish! In case of another emergency, what about RO water? That's what I use in my tank, and the pH is lower than regular tapwater (mine is 6.8)

Shawnie

how soon were the deaths after dipping and adding the plants? or did you have deaths prior to the dipping ?

Regal

Yes that does seem logical. I guess it’s just taken me this long to figure it out.

The plant tabs have to be it. I couldn’t find API or Seachem tabs locally and I was too cheap to pay Foster and Smith $10 to ship $8 root tabs. When I saw the pond plants at Petsmart and they were cheaper and a larger package I just grabbed them. DUMB!


Most of the fish deaths have been prior to the plant dips. Just the male Ram has died since the plant dips.

I have the HOT Magnum on with diatom powder. I’m going to add some carbon to the filter. I don’t know why it’s taken me this long to think of that.
I think I need to do a big water change to get the rest of the plant tabs out of the gravel. The male Ram went from perfect to dying during the gravel vacuuming on Sunday so I’ll get some spring water and add tap water to adjust the ph so I’ll have a bucket of water on hand just in case any fish start going down when the gravel is disturbed.

I’m not sure but it seems like the algae is getting slightly better. The SAEs are nibbling at it so maybe.

And as I’m sitting here typing my big blushing (I think) male angel is gasping at the surface.

iloveengl

Could you bucket the fish (maybe multiple buckets) while you gravel vac and water change? That way you can go super thorough without needing to be as careful and it may be healthier for them.

I'm sorry for your fishies losses and I really hope this solves your problems!

Regal

I think that's what I'm going to do. I'll at least take out the angels, they're pretty easy to catch.

The koi angel is gasping now and his yellow mate is resting near the bottom behind one of the plants.

I'm like pacing back and forth trying to figure out what to do next.

Regal

Well I took the fish out last night and put them in a bucket of tank water while I did a huge water change. I drained it to about 2 inches of water above the gravel. I cleaned the gravel really well and stirred it up so I could siphon out the rest of the plant tabs.

Nobody is gasping today but one pair has been behind a plant most of the day and their color is very light. It's different ones than the ones that were gasping last night. All the angels are just kind of still today. I guess there is not much I can do but hope for the best at this point.

Thank you very much everyone for all of your ideas.

Melissawater

I hope they get better

Regal

Thought I’d update everyone who was so kind to try to help me figure this out.

I have not had any more fish deaths since the male Ram last Sunday. Maybe the big water change that I did got the rest of the pond fertilizer tabs out of the gravel. I don’t know for sure that they were what caused the problem, I’m just guessing. Seems like the only logical thing.

I put my bio-wheel 350 back on this tank (it had been running on another tank) and the angels have been more active. Maybe there wasn’t enough oxygen in the water. I’ll leave it on for now since it seems to be helping.

The first fish to have problems was one of the corys. He was laying on the gravel and drifting around the tank. Sometimes he goes into a spin and can’t seem to stop. I actually considered that it might have been time to euthanize him. I put all of the corys in a ten gallon while trying to figure out what was going on. He has slowly improved but he’s not 100% yet. I don’t know what symptoms a cory would have from copper but the fertilizer had copper sulfate in it. (I can’t believe I was dumb enough to put that in my aquarium without reading up on it or anything)