pinkfloydpuffer

Ok, so, I was thinking... if a gang valve can let one pump power multiple devices, could a gang valve reversed let many pumps power one device?
So, connect one pump to each of the valve outlets, and connect the one airstone or whatever onto the part where the airpump usually connects? If this would work it could help me alot, as my Tetra Whisper air pump, which is the largest size they make, isn't strong enough to power the flexible bubblewand in my very deep 80g tank.

FoxyGrandpa

yes technically. but what would you need all that power for anyways

pinkfloydpuffer

As I said above... my 80g is very very deep, and the largest air pump that they sell isn't strong enough to combat all that pressure from the deep water.

shadowavenger

It would depend on the volume of air that the tubing can accommodate. if you have too much air being forced through a small space it probably won't work because the resistance of the tubing would be greater than the amount of force the pumps can put out. Think of it like this:

in electricity, you have 3 fundamental theorems, Voltage (force) current (amount of material or energy to be moved) and resistance (the force acting against the movement of material or energy). Look at the setup as the pumps being the batteries, the air being the current, the tubes being the wires (and a source of resistance) and the gang valve as a current node. Hooking an array of pumps into a gang valve basically wires them all in parallel, meaning that all the the force (voltage) they produce is the same but the amount of air (current) is much greater. The resistance of the tubing (wires) hinders the amount of air which can flow through the circuit, and even though you have much more current being produced, the tubing still only allows a certain amount to pass through. In order to overcome the resistance, you have to increase the voltage (force of the air). in electricity, you would wire the batteries in series, meaning that the positive would go to the negative of each battery, and the voltage would go up with the number of batteries you use. Since you would be having all the pumps in parallel, the force created is the same but they can source more current. But since they can't overcome the resistance, you will still get the same amount of air regardless. What you would need to do is to get a pump that has a greater force output to over come the resistance of the tubing and put more air through the tubing. You would most likely have to get a more powerful pump.

V=IR (voltage = current * resistance) or (air pressure = amount of air * resistance of the tubing) Ohms law applied to pneumatics!

Sorry if this is confusing, but I like to express my knowledge of everything when I have the opportunity too! Plus electronics are another one of my many hobbies!

pinkfloydpuffer

Lol, thanks.

Unfortunately, I haven't found a pump that's bigger as of yet....

shadowavenger

Hmm. 50 gallon air compressor set to 150 PSI! Guaranteed to blow all the water out of the tank, and burst the tubing at the same time lol!

pinkfloydpuffer

Lol. We have one of those out in the garage. Don't think my dad would like me using it though

shadowavenger

Lol. Hmm. I wonder if they have devices that you can put inline with the tubing to increase the velocity of the air? Like the nozzle on a hose. If you can increase the velocity of the air it might be strong enough to overcome the pressure of the water.

agabr123

i read that whole thing......and am AGAIN reminded of exactly why i am a liberal arts major.......... *headdesk*

Drew 43920

Electrical resistance is due to the atoms not wanting to give up their outer shell electrons. I don't think the same applies in an air pressure situation.
(See what you started PinkFloydPuffer, LOL)

pinkfloydpuffer

Oh dear lol

shadowavenger

It just applies to the objects tendency to inhibit the flow of matter or energy. With electricity its due to the number of valence electrons but also the number of electrons available to be given up which restricts the amount of current that can pass during a certain period of time, which is why a smaller wire has a larger resistance than a thicker wire. With air its because the diameter of the tubing restricts how many molecules of air can pass through at one time.

Drew 43920

So if PinkFloydPuffer used a larger air line her problem would be solved ?

shadowavenger

possibly. but its not just the airline. the nozzle on the pump itself is a certain diameter, the input nozzle on the bubble stone is a certain diameter, and if a gang valve was used, then the diameters of the nozzles on that would be resistive to the air flow. if all the equipment was made to fit larger diameter connections then it would work. The best thing to do would be to use a higher velocity pump or to install a device to increase air velocity through the tubing, but I don't know if they make those or not.

Drew 43920

Wouldn't 2 pumps increase velocity ?

shadowavenger

no, they would increase the volume of air being pumped or the potential volume of air to be pumped, not the velocity of it moving through the tubes.

Drew 43920

If the Area of the tube is constant and Volume is increased doesn't that result in an increase in Velocity ?

shadowavenger

generally yes, but you are just increasing the speed in which the air is being driven though the pipe, not the volume of air going through it. What pinkfloydpuffer needs is a more powerful force of air to overcome the pressures of the water.

The power rule is P=I*V (Power = Current * Voltage) or in pneumatics (air force = volume of air * velocity of the air)

you can have a low velocity/high volume through the pipe proportional to the amount of air it will allow, or you can have high velocity/low volume also proportional. in order to get enough air pressure to the bubble stone to overcome the water pressure, the overall air force or power has to be increased. a higher velocity may overcome the water pressure but the amount of air being pumped to the bubble stone would be dismal.