mirciulie

FOlks,

I've been reading here about how good aeration is for the tank. Mainly for the gas exchanges at the surface. I had a powerhead in the tank that died last week, so I went all out and bought a Tetra Whisper 60 for my 50 gal.

Now, the thing is that it's making some currents in the tank (and I thought the powerhead was bad ). I know I can adjust the air on that.

BUt the fish don't seem to enjoy the bubbles to much. They look to be more active in the tank, but that may be due to fighting the currents. I'll have to sit down and watch the tank to understand exactly what's going on....

I thought that tetras will play in the bubles. The Gouramis don't like it for sure.

Also, why do they rate those airpumps for like 50 gal, with 2 outputs, since I can get ony one with 1 output (for a 30 gal.) and split it in 4 if needed it. Anybody has more then one airstone in the tank? I'm curious how some of you guys and gals have yours set up. LIke in one corner or in the midle of the tank, on the back walls....

Jim

Ahhh, you ask some VERY good questions. Obviously all that air is so the fish can breathe, but that's the easy answer. Basically the more the fish the more oxygen, (surface rippling, bubblers, etc...) you'll need.
But water current, bubbles ands airstones can actually be both good and bad, depending on the tank set-up. My tanks are heavily planted, so i try and limit all current if possible, because it not only oxygenates the water, it allows CO2 to escape into the air, which is bad for my plants. But because my plants kick off so much oxygen it's not an issue. I only run a small bubble stone at night because photosynthisis reversess at night and my fish will suffocate.
Now, the water current... This is part of something I don't think most people think about; the origin of their fish. My 2 big planted tanks are great examples; 1 is a Southeast Asian Swamp and the other is an Amazon flooded forest floor. Both are pretty accurate to the region, with the exception of a couple plants that are crossed over. Both have more or less the same water conditions (very soft with a low pH) with 1 exception, the water current. The amazon has some, but the swamp has as little as possible. This is because a swamp in nature is very still. And guess where your Gouramis originate... you got it, an Asian swamp. This is why Gouramis in general don't like much current, and like lots of plants to hide in as well, they're swamp fish. So are betta's BTW. But having said that, I've caught my big pearl male swimming in the pump out-flow now and then.
Also, the tetras are Amazonian so they fit nicely into my other tank. They like some current, but not a lot. It depends on the particular species. The biggest thing with Tetras is the more the merrier; they're definitly schooling/schoaling fish.
As for yours, I would guess more than anything they're not used to the change in their environment. Fish don't like change, so give them a week or 2 and they should adjust.
As for bubble stone placement, it's all up to your imagination. Before I went to live plants I had a 12" stone along the side wall of my tank that looked awesome. I had Serpae tetras back then that i watched play in the bubble stream all the time. And I've seen some pretty clever ways of using a bubbler with different decorations.

Peterpiper

If your getting to much air you can put a bleed valve in the line ( a tee with a valve ), so you can ajust the flow without putting to much back pressure on the pump

COBettaCouple

I put gang valves on all of our air lines to control the flow. We're almost all on flexible bubble wands now, rather than air stones. I like how you can shape them how you want and create the bubble wall where & how you want.

I think the rating has to do with how much total pressure it puts out.. I've had 8 devices running off of 1 pump where another pump could only do 4 without not being able to get them enough pressure.

mirciulie

Jim and the rest,

Thanks for the advice. I knew my fish are more of a slow water species, but didn't know details. (amazon flooded forrest and asian swamps).

I know what I'll do. I'll return the pump that I have and get a single output one, and run one stone or buble wand once in awhile. Maybe when I'm looking and the fish. This way, they get some oxigenation, I get the visual and not too much current. Or maybe a couple hrs of air per day....

Jim, I have a school of serpaes and they avoid the bubles. They come very close to them but never enter. Maybe it'll take a bit for them to get used. Don't know. I'll let you know if they or the rest of the fish get used with it.

treehugr

Hello all. We put in an AirPod bubbler a couple of weeks ago and were kind of frustrated that the airflow wasn't adjustable. Are there any out there that are?

We just have a 14g Biocube so I think the bubble stream might be too much for our small tank.

We have 1 Dwarf Blue Gourami and 3 Red Serpae Tetra; the Gourami doesn't seem to mind the bubbles - he even gets pretty close while nibbling the algae from the fake plants that are within the stream of the bubbles.

I can't tell if the Tetra like it or not, they tend to stay away from the bubble stream - definitely aren't playing in it. I have noticed a change in behavior the last couple of days -- they are back to being skittish (like they were when I first got them) and hiding when I approach the tank AND I have noticed some nips in their fins. I assume they are stressed so I am turning off the bubbler to see if their behavior changes for the better.

Also, strangely enough, the Gourami has been going to the surface every few minutes for some air. I thought that was strange since the bubbler is supposed to ADD oxygen. Any thoughts?

mrsmuffin

treehugr - you can buy a valve for a couple of bucks at your LFS that will allow you to adjust your airflow

treehugr

Are those the things shaped like a "T" that split the flow into two streams? Or is it something you add to the outside/pump?

I also saw a product from Marineland called a Bubble Wand - I'm guessing since that throws up a curtain of bubbles, it would be a slower stream (since the air is being spread out across a larger area), but I could be wrong.

Jim

I'm somewhat surprised by this. I had a school of about 10 Serpaes around a year ago that LOVED to play in the bubbles. They'd start at the top and swim as hard as they could thru the bubble stream to the bottom, then stop swimming and ride the bubbles back to the top, over and over. But I honestly don't remember how long it was before they started playing in them. It could be it'll just take them some getting used to it.

Jim

A T splitter is just that, it's to seperate a line into 2. But unlike a gang-valve you have no control over the air flow. And you're right about the bubble want, it's to make a curtain, which can look awesome in the right tank. Your also correct about the pump, it takes more air in a 10" bubblewand than a 5" to produce the same amount of "bubble-curtain"

mrsmuffin

The ones I use are outside of the tank. It goes like this: air pump -> air hose -> valve (mine have one input and 2 adjustable outputs, if you only want to use one output, then you just close the other one off) -> air hose that goes in to the tank to attach to your airstone, etc.

I don't THINK that thse cause a slower stream, they just spread the bubbles out.

treehugr

My Serpaes don't seem to like the bubbles either. Maybe because I don't have a full shoal yet (have 3 now, planning on getting 2-3 more) and they don't feel comfortable enough to play in there. Or maybe they're just not used to the bubbles yet. As I mentioned in an earlier post, they seem stressed lately which I can only assume is due to the bubbles since that is the only change we made to the tank.

treehugr

Thanks, guys.

So, then if we switched out the air stone for the bubble wand it SHOULD slow down the release of the bubbles? I want a gentler release of the bubbles so they don't stress the fish.

Or, maybe that valve plus the bubble wand will do the trick.

Jim

Well, if it was me I'd just go with the valve first, it costs less, unless you want to switch to a bubblewand. Personally I like bubblewands over stones. I don't know if there's any hard science to confirm this, but it just seems to me that spreading out the bubble stream thru more water would allow for greater amounts of oxygen to disolve in the water.

Ultimately I think the valve will make a bigger difference than the bubblewand, but gang-valves are sometimes hard to control, so find a good one.

angelfish220

The gourami is going to the surface because he is a labryth fish, and they have like a lung that enables them to breath air.

Jim

yes, they're one of my favorites. A gouroumi is an Asian Swamp fish, like my Bowfront tank is set up. It is very still and warm, and the plants super oxygenate the water during the day. But at night, when photosynthisis reverses, the plants and fish sometimes drop the O2 levels to almost zero. So Bettas and Gouroumi evolved the labrynth, as sort of primitive lung. I've also noticed that if my water gets stirred up in any way the gouroumi shoot right to the top to breath. I don't think it's anything to do with water quality, rather it's an instinct.
FYI, Other fish in this region like catfish can "gulp" air, and small fish like harliquin rasbora remain very still so as to use as little oxygen as possible until the levels rise again in the morning sun. It's facinating seeing how these fish have evolved to fit their environment.

treehugr

Actually, I'd like to see how the bubblewand does. I like the idea of the curtain of bubbles and, if there is a chance that it allows for greater amounts of oxygen, great. If the bubble stream still isn't gentle enough I could always get a valve to add onto it, right?

treehugr

Interesting, thanks for the insight. I feel bad not having live plants in my tank but I will one day, when I get a larger tank. I want to get this hobby down first and then I can tackle the live plant part of it

I have to say, I love my Gourami (Andy, after Andy Warhol) he is fun to watch and he's not shy. He comes up to me whenever I approach the glass (versus the Tetra, who take off to the other side of the tank) and even when I walk by the tank. I know it's probably just that he associates me with feedings but I like to think he likes me too He will also come right up to the top when I feed him.

Jim

First, definitly learn about fish before you dive into plants... trust me on that one, I have 2 planted tanks,and someday I'll write an article or something on how badly I screwed them up before I finally got it down. Plants are a science in themselves, and are amazingly rewarding. But unless you know about caring for their needs they can be a nightmare scenario waiting to happen. Again, trust me, I've been there and it's not fun...lol.

Now, as for your gouroumi, I have a big male pearl and 3 smaller honey gouroumis, and my Pearl acts the same. They're not the same family, but they seem to act close to a cichlid, and do seem to some extent to recognize people and objects outside the tank. So I don't know if it's just that they recognize the hand that feeds, so to speak, or if they are actually aware of their owners, like some cichlids are. I think it's the later of the 2.

treehugr

I definitely agree with you on the live plants - that's a whole hobby in itself. I'll get the fish-keeping down first. And, when I finally do dive into the live plants, I'll start simple. I was just thinking of a low growing plant that would give the smaller fish (and shrimp) a place to hide and add more oxygen to the water. But, when it comes time, I'll definitely seek the advice of seasoned people, like yourself, on Fishlore.

treehugr

Do you have any pics of your gouramies? I was wondering what others looked like. Mine (Dwarf Blue) is iridescent light blue and has orange eyes. I love how the light shines off of his colors when he swims and turns.

Since we're on the subject...if I were to get another gourami, what kind would you suggest? Would I have to get the same kind of gourami for them to interact?

Also, I have heard it's not a good idea to get another male as they will get aggressive. I have also heard that, if you do get a female, you should get two because the male will drive the female crazy by chasing her all day. Is this true?

Jim

Well, I don't know about "seasoned"... maybe more "crusty, old, fish-geek..." lol.

But seriously, when you're ready we'll be here, and more than glad to help you with anything. I'm just glad you're starting slow. Live plants are amazing, and I wouldn't have a tank now without them. But your exactly right, it's almost a completely seperate hobby from the fish themselves, and you really need a good understanding of them BEFORE you start.
In the meantime, if you want to give your fish some cover and deck out your tank without gong to all the trouble of live plants, there's some really high quality silk plants available that're very hard to tell from the real thing. I saw an article in a fish mag (can't remember which off the top o' my head) maybe 2 months ago on decorating tanks with silk plants, and some were amazingly realistic looking. Throw in some nice driftwood and a couple good rocks and unless they look really close no-one will be able to tell the difference.

Jim

The best pic of my pearl is probably here.\:

If you look, he's right in front near the middle.
As for behaviour, I'm not the best gouroumi expert, but I can tell you that despite their reputation, my pearl male is pretty peaceful, and gets along with the little sunset gouroumi's fine.

treehugr

Thanks, I definitely appreciate the advice and suggestions everyone gives. This site is a great thing.

As far as plants, we have some nice looking fake ones (not silk) that look pretty real. The live plants would be more for the happiness of the fish, not so much for us. That's why I was thinking maybe just the low growing plants for the bottom of the tank. Could we do that instead of using gravel? Also, how do the plants stay down - do they grow in some type of mud??

As far as rocks and stuff, when we started the tank we had driftwood, a rock that had a cool little cave area and a piece of coral. However, when we started having issues with algae (the green kind, not these diatoms we're dealing with now), we took them out because it was hard to keep them clean. Also, because our tank is only 14g, we thought it might be too much -- we wanted to make sure the fish had enough free space So, we just have the fake plants in the back and then our little tiki statue right now. I might add the driftwood or one of the rocks back in. Or, maybe I'll just hold onto them until we get a bigger tank.

treehugr

Was just checking on of my other threads (regarding algae eaters for a small tank) and someone suggested Java Moss as an easy plant. Said to tie it to a piece of driftwood. What do you think about that - is it easy? Does it spread? I don't want anything to take over my small tank

Jim

Java Moss is VERY easy. It attaches to wood or rock, or just sort of sits there and grows. It doesn't require a lot of light, although it will grow faster with it, and it's a great nitrate eater I'm told. I've had such good luck with it I occasionally have to trim some and give it away.
Also, if you happen to have, or get a FEMALE Betta, there's something about real Java that drives them nuts. Ive caught mine diving into it, swimming thru it, even tunnelling UNDER it! They are from the same region, and just love the stuff.

treehugr

So, do you think I should get some or wait until we get the larger tank? If the fish I have now will enjoy it I could try it. If they could care less, then I'll wait

Jim

OK, the big thing as I see it is, with the exception of a couple tough species of Amazon Swords (that I think could grow in cat-litter), aquatic plants are just like terrestrial plants, and need good soil to grow in. I use a combination of 3 products, Eco-Complete, Floutrite and Laterite. These are specially formulated substrates (gravel) for planted tanks. Warning, they're NOT cheap; Eco averages about $25.00 a bag. I spent well over $150.00 for just substrates in each of my tanks.
There's also a thread currently going around by a couple members experimenting with real soil under a top layer of gravel. I've never done it myself, But i'm intrigued, and am watching this thread closely to see what happens.
As for anchoring the plants down, that's simple. Just plant them like any other plant. Now I know that's sort of a pat answer, but I'm actually serious. When you first buy a plant, they usually come in these little pots with stuff called Rockwool. And unless the plant is exceptionally unhealthy (you shouldn't be buying it anyway), it should have a nice root base. Just VERY carefully remove the plant from the rockwool and trim back any dead leaves if necessary. Then very carefully use you fingers, dig a little hole and plant it. If everything goes right the plant will continue to root, and like some of my big swords, root to the point you might not ever get them back out! lol

Jim

If you can find some healthy Java, then I say go for it! Real plants, whatever the species, are definitly beneficial to the fish and tank, and some even swear they have some sort of medicinal properties with the fish. Now I don't know about all that, but I do know once I got things right I've had much greater success with planted tanks than non-planted tanks. There just seems to be something about real plants that brings the whole underwater environment together.

treehugr

Interesting. Well, what I might do once we get that larger tank is to plant just one side of it, or just the center. Maybe that will keep the maintenance and cost down some