outlaw

We have had issues with one of our what I thought was a female Red Fin getting picked on. I removed it from the main tank for a week (while we were on vacation) to let it heal from some of the wounds. 1 eye was kinda hazy, fins looked like they were getting nipped at, loosing scales. When I looked in there Saturday when we got back, it looked like a smaller male Red Fin. Anybody else see this happen?

I did find this article where it states it will look like a female to avoid getting picked on by the dominant male. Article Here. Is it maybe possible that the male knows it is a male now and will continue to pick on it?

Thanks in advance.

sirdarksol

A survival tactic is more likely than a spontaneous sex change. Sex change requires a lot of energy. A healing body just wouldn't have access to this.
It's an interesting and likely tactic, though. If the males of a species generally don't pick on the females, mimicking a female would allow survival.

outlaw

I thought about that after posting and am at work. I couldn't change it in time. And I was looking up the "morphing" too as I was posting. It was just a surprise to see what we thought as a "her" change to a "him". lol Going from grayish/silver with fire orange fins to blue/purple head with black and white on fins and an orange-ish body seems to be pretty drastic to me. I was like... "wth? I thought that was a female." lol

Here is a before when he/she was getting picked on..



I will try to get some pics tonight of how he/she looks now.

Shawnie

oh if changing sex was that easy!!!!!!!

outlaw

lol Shawnie.

sirdarksol- That's where my confusion is. It was disguised as a female but was still getting picked on by the male, even when I just had it sitting in the fish net in the tank. The large male would push up into the net trying to get at it. The larger female would also chase it around. Maybe it is just the odd fish out?

Allie

African cichlids are masters of disguises. A few years ago, I was sold 5 Steveni peacocks 1 male & 4 females. He was quite aggressive. We found out like a month later we had 3 males and two females. No wonder the lone male was upset. lol
The subdominant fish will keep their female coloring sometimes b/c the dominant fish can get quite aggressive.

outlaw

He must have tried to bring out the colors because he was pretty badly beaten up. He is pretty shy in the little tank (2.5G for now). I do have a hiding place for him. I am hesitant to put him back in there though. Would I need to get 2 more females?

Allie

Yeah I would just to keep the dominant fella from beating the tar out of the other guy.
You may have to sell the dominant fish, if he is too dominant. Good luck with your fish. Getting the right mix of Africans can be a tiring experience.

outlaw

The Large male only seems to pick on/injure the smaller male. He does chase the 2 females around but not to the point have actually injuring them. They (females) don't have any markings anyways that would show injury and eat and swim fine. Their fins look good also.

Allie

Maybe you could get more females or you could sell the injured fella when he is healed up. The dominant fish may try to hog all of the females. lol

outlaw

I was leaning more towards selling since a lot of the fish at the LFS's are all too small or what I would consider too small for them. I guess I am just more glad to find out that he is really a he and not a her. lol get that? haha

Just a kind of a side question with the smaller male.. When I had him in this tank before, I didn't have him in there as long but was probably 3-4 days and he didn't even come close to having these colors. Would depression also cause this?

Allie

I doubt he'd be more colorful when depressed. Africans when stressed or sick tend to loose their coloring.
What size are your fish?

outlaw

The dominant male: approx 7"
Subdominant male: approx 4-5" (he is in between the 2 females for size)
Female 1: approx 5-6"
Female 2: approx 3"

Yellow Lab: approx 5-6"

updated
older photo:

One on the left is the male.


Again, older photo:

Obvious dominant male and I think the other male on the lower right

Allie

Well that's why he is getting his butt kicked...the other guy is twice his size.

outlaw

whoops, was editing with the pics while you posted.


edited:
When I bought them (with the tank from craigslist). I was told they were all 4 at the time (one rip) females and had no reason to doubt it until now.

Allie

lol Your dominant male is awesome. Poor fella all tattered looking.

outlaw

Thank you, and I'm sure you can see from the pics why I would think it was a female. I think I said it somewhere above, I will try to get new pics of them, the Males and females. Some of the tattered look in the top pic is the tank. I had the 2.5G in the 46G so I didn't have to buy a filter. lol I have since bought another filter which i was using while on vacation and the colors came out. Thanks for the input and hopefully you'll like the pics.

mlinden84

A few months ago I watched a very interesting show on tv on this very subject. They had a bunch of cichlids in a tank, with one dominant male. Once the male was removed, another male (that was previously thought to be a female) colored up and took the place of dominant male. If this male was then removed, another one would take its place. They tested this on several different species over several months.
They came to the conclusion that the subdominant males would take on feminine characteristics so they wouldn't be bullied by the male. Some of these males also appeared to be holding. (many of the ones that were "holding" turned into the dominant male).
It was very informative... I just wish I could remember what channel it was on and what it was called!!